Bev’s been in touch with a horse bite problem.
And it’s the thing I love most about this site: the different approaches people have to different problems.
So when I got this email from Bev, I thought we might be able to help…
“Dear Al:
First let me tell you that I think your site is fantastic! I have learned so much and happily found like thinking people, ie; bitless briddles, barefoot and treeless, although I must admit that I had never heard of treeless before and thought I was totally alone in my thinking about bits. So your site was ‘home at last’ for me.
I have a biting horse problem though and don’t know who to turn to for advise. I live in America, the state of Washington, very rural and in the mountains of a small town. I moved here from California 7 years ago…due to having MS. Heat in Ca was killing me. So bought 33 acres. Then promptly decided I needed a bout with cancer.
7 years later, I’m fine, no cancer (pancreatic) and ready to fulfill a dream…rescue a couple of horses that needed a good home. I had one as a kid, 12ish and only had him a year, but what a year it was! My Dad sold him out from under me and I swore to one day get another…my dream!
Well, I have rescued two beautiful mares, Shasta a 9 yr old quarter horse and Moca an 18 yr old registered arabian. Both from not abusive situations but serious neglect. Both were supposed to be gentle, after all I’m 63, and they just needed love and care.
Shasta and I had a moment when I went to take my first ride, and through NO fault of hers, she nipped me, (no mark). Ouch, a biting horse. Just a hey, that hurt, when my friend, from up the street, cinched her too tight and pinched her. I was closest and she let me know it hurt.
Again, through no fault of hers, we ultimately had a pretty bad moment when she wouldn’t take the bit, gee wonder why? and my friend tried to force the issue. Long story short I got thrown, I was holding her halter, and Shasta reared and went down. So to say she didn’t trust me was a bit of an understatement.
We’ve worked through it a bit but much to my embarrassment I must admit that I was cautious to say the least. But Moca? We had no problems that I knew of. I knew she had been left totally alone for years and wasn’t attended to at all. I gave her, her first carrot! I noticed that her skin jumped horribly when I touched her but I believe in Love, that it can cure and do anything. I’ve had them both now for Shasta, about 3 months and Moca about 1.
Well yesterday my partner and I wanted to spend some time with them and groom, they free pasture roam, and with carrots in pocket, brush in hand out we went. All was fine, until out of the blue Moca turned into the biting horse and bit me and hard. Now the lady that gave her to us said that she always keeps her ears back and that she looks like she’ll bite but never has. Well that’s now past tense. She really nailed me. I told her very sternly No! bad girl and left, I had too, I was bleeding. I’ve gone over this and over this in my head and for the life of me a I cannot figure out what went wrong.
I’d hate to think that I’m too old for this, or that I’ve made a mistake, that it just isn’t meant to be. I love them both tremendously and although I guess having “my friend Flicka” probably isn’t going to happen, but in all reality, why not? What am I doing wrong? It’s got to be me, what can I do? Why do I have a biting horse?I don’t really know anyone around here, being in the hospital so much I haven’t connected with anyone to ask advise and truthfully?, I don’t believe in the rough hand everyone I’ve heard talk about isn’t for me. I have no desire to hit, yell, and “show them who’s boss”. I really do believe in love, gentleness and kindness. WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?
If you have any advise for this old lady please let me know…I’m desperate.
Thank you so much!
Bev”
Any ideas for Bev on her biting horse? Please do post a comment below.
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Hey Bev
My Arabian stallion use to bite me everytime I groomed him,
Even when I would saddle him up.
Arabians are sometimes tempermental when they get older
Anyway what I did after he bit me so that my arm was bleeding. I went to him grabbed him went to his neck the mane part and I bite him back as hard as I could.
I have hair in my mouth and I nearly choked there after but he never ever bit me again. It use to upset me because I looked after him so why bite me?
Good luck
chantelle
Biting back sounds interesting. I try to think like a horse. I am 56 and have wanted a horse since I was 8. I finally got Jace last year and found it hard to get him to respect me as I worship the ground he puts his hoofs on. He can be stubborn and tests me, one time he would not come in our of his turnout area so I did something Joe Camp suggested, I widened my eyes, flared my nostrils, put my hands on my hips and …stamped my right foot *once* (the last part was my idea). The look on his face was priceless, he shot into the paddock, and did a lap around the barn. Meanwhile I looked away with my shoulders slumped as in Join Up. Sure enough he came and put his lovely head on my shoulder and we have been doing great ever since. Why not try it if you get bitten again? I will definitely not use the Alpha Mare Method (my term)ever again unless it is seriously needed (why waste the element of surprise!) but it worked for me. Good luck and do not give up! Saying to myself,”I AM the Alpha Mare” helps too!
Well Sandi this is a great idea. I was wanting to know how to stop my mustang from nipping at me or even trying to bite me without breaking his trust in me. I used my fingers to simulate a bite without any result. This sounds like an awesome idea. Alpha mare I will become the next time he tries to bite or nip.
Chantelle,
I agree with your reply.:-) I have a 23 year old Arabian mare . She is very tempermental. She doesn’t bite but will buck . She was a champion barrel racer until 17 and then started a career as a Western Pleasure until she was 22. It took me a year to bond with her and now she is only my horse. I mean everyone else gets ears back. No one rides her now. I trick train her and she is the smartest horse I have every seen. I figure she just doesn’t want to be ridden anymore.
Yes I had trainers come out but Arabians have their own minds!lol She threw everyone . I had three and all three hit the ground some of the stubborn ones hit the ground five to six times. They used my saddle, rode bareback, hackamore, indian bridle and a halter with all the same results. I can ride her for about fifteen minutes then she will start to shift her back legs but my opinion on it is hey she is going to be 24 in a few months and she has done a lot it is time to just use her brain.
Did you have her checked out by a Vet? I would have her back and hips xrayed. My daugther in law does acupressure on horses and acupressure really helps the horses.Get the Linda Telling Jones book,she has changed animals personality even the big cats.
Horses don’t think like us. You got intoher space and you weren’t invited.
You don’t have to be cruel. You do have to be firm. And you will need help how to start it off if you don’t already know.
The natural horsemanship people are very good at this bit and will probably charge less than you think just to get your horse to stand without biting you.
It’s not you. The horses don’t respect you. However, it is a bit of an art form getting that respect especially if they have been running wild.
Hi Bev, you have had a rough trot yourself and deserve a little break from your mares i think! mares really can be foul ungrateful creatures, however, there may just be an excuse for Moca like you hit a spot that she felt pain on and she was saying ‘ouch’! all sorts of reasons for pain, maybe you just groomed a bit of mud that snagged her skin, or maybe she had bumped in to a tree or she had invaded Shastas space and Shasta had bruised her. Or maybe your touch is too light and it tickled her or most likely she had had enough of being groomed and was telling you! titbits fed from the hand like carrots can sometimes cause horses to bite as they try harder and harder to make you produce more when you have no more on you. did i mention that mares are foul ungrateful creatures? they seem to be alot like cats and only require your attention when they want it and NOT otherwise, despite your desperate attempts at offering them love and attention.
Jane,
I agree and disagree. lol Mares are more temperamental then geldings. Especially when they go into heat. My 23 year old Arabian mare is a hussy and is more dangerous then stallion when she is going through her cycle. My other mare is a TWH and is always pleasant! You can do anything with this horse. She is 15 and she is the one I put friends, family and my husband on . She didn’t know anything when I got her four months ago and she was 15 years old. Now we ride her in a halter, stands, holds and lifts all legs. etc..
I do agree with the treats. Treats fed from the hand can make some horses agressive. I feed two of my horses from hand but ONLY when we are training. They have to work for the treats . This works well because instead of being agressive they will shake their heads “yes” or lift a leg when they are looking for treats. Natural horsmanship is a wonderful way to bond with your horses. I also clicker train . You need to find what works for you.
Treats, if any, (other than a soft word or rub), should never be fed by hand. Take the treat and put it in a bucket or some other object not associated with your body or you.
I understand how hurt you are – it is very hard when someone you love ‘bites the hand’, and so literally ! You are being seen as an underdog – a horse will not bite someone they respect. You may not want to shout, or give your mare a wallop, but that is a natural reaction, and for a reason. Bet her mom would have nipped her back when she as a foal ! She needs to realise you are her ‘herd leader’ – not the same as ‘showing her who is boss’. If Moca has been left to her own devices for years, she will not be used to respecting anyone else’s space. Read Joe Camp’s blog, Mark Rashid ( A Good Horse is never a Bad Color ), and anything else you can find on Natural Hosremanship. Sometimes love has to be tough for a while ! Very best wishes, Finola.
I have a 4 year old palomino quarter horse. Had him since he was 1 and he bites at me. Love him so much, but this is upsetting. I can be brushing him(which he loves) or just letting him walk up to me and petting his forehead and 3 out 5 times he will bite at me. Need help too!
Ginger,
I understand your pain. I have a 17 month old gelding named Teddy. We have had him since his owners abandoned him at five months of age. He is mouthy.
Now I think with some horses there is just a miscommunication between the person and their horse.
Now is your horse and “only ” child?
Horses uses their mouths to groom each other and also to find out about the world around them. They don’t have fingers!lol So they use their mouths. You may need to “train” him other ways to communicate and to get your attention. I have seen so many horses repremanded when they were not biting out of aggression or disrespect at all. They are just very very intelligent horses.
For example. Teddy (my gelding) puts everything in his mouth. HE will pick up a hose, he will play with a volley ball and we bought him a stuffed teddy bear that he only gets under supervision. He loves his “toys”. He also likes to pick up brooms and run “pretend” to sweep. He is also known for going up to his “sister” horses and trying to pull their tails and running away.
He has bitten people hard though. He bit my son when he was five months old . He was shaken back and he did not repeat that behavior with him. We have used just natural horsemanship with him since he was five month old so he knows all the games and if your press the lead rope on the right of his neck he will turn left and so on.
We do not feed him by hand at all. You can’t with a mouth horse plus he is very pushy. We work with him and then put any rewards in his feed bowl.
We also taught him “yes” (shakes his head up and down and that means he likes what you are doing. He will grab the lead rope or a rope we keep by his stall to shake (you know you shake them back with natural horseman ship ) to let us know he is unhappy. The only negative is he will try to grab the sleeve of someones shirt-he is very gentle – if no rope is near by to let them no that he doesn’t like what they are doing. When he is gentle as when he rubs his mouth on my leg or gives me a love nip (no teeth more just lip) I don’t get on to him.
Now the day he bit me hard I immediately smacked him with no hesitation. He has not done it again . It has to be quick are else it is just abuse. This has been the only time he has ever been hit. He is not afraid of me. Is not head shy and it did not damage our relationship what so ever.
I always tell horse owners to know your/ horse. There is a horse named Stitch at a barn and he is a smart horse. I went into his stall and he nipped at me. He also tried to hold the rake for stall cleaning.(I was there to help a friend clean out the stalls.) The stable owner/ trainer told me to hit him when he tried to bite me. I was flabbergasted. I could tell this had been happening a lot to him and it wasn’t neccessary with this horse. He is curious. Now if he had tried to bite me with his ears back in a threatening way yeah I would have nailed him but what he was doing was not at all. He took my pants and gave it a tug. He took my hand in his mouth but there was no pressure .
In the end I realized he was board and he was falling me around the stall and neighing when I left after only 20 minutes of being around him.
Quarter horses are normally very nice animals. So is he biting you with agression or something else. Is he normally mouthy. Also how much time are you working with him. I spend at least 30 minutes a day with mine five to six days a week just working on ground manners. I hope this helps.
Hi very similar stories but my mom did it to me. Sorry about all your past I’ll ess, mine was the lost of two loved ones in 2010. And hitting 60 in June, I worked with my colt & his unruly kid sister came with him. Please don’t carry the carrot in your pocket or ever feed them from your hands… He was looking for more and could smell it on you. Drop the carrot in the bucket or on the ground but don’t use it to gather them from the pasture. Ground work, Richard shrank’s books, Craig Cameron’s seminars & Zen Mind Zen Horse helped me to understand what they were thinking and a better way to approach them. After chores I google every question I can while I have my hot chocolate & the Internet is so helpful … Like this site. And love & patience but take care of yourSelf so you can take care of them. Ps unless your friend spends time with some of the daily ground work and chores the horses don’t know this predictor that is getting on there back . Don’t give up your dream … Cand
Approach your horse with the back of your hand…if she smells you, this is good, the moment she puts her lips on you, even if she is not going to bite, clopp her under the chin with your hand, hard then look away and act as if the pain did not come from you… do it over and over until she gets it. always reapproach her to the side with a happy greeting and pet then offer the back of your hand again. Ground work.
Candice,
That is not good advice. Putting your hand out and then hurting her, while pretending not to is rediculous. You are standing right there. She will never trust you completely. 🙁
hi , i just wanted to say you are never too old to get back into horses, i had one and rode when i was yuong, and then i didnt have anything to do with them unill i was 48 , my neice was given a pony, we were told he had navicular, but he never seemed lame, we never rode him in the year we had him, he was called rhino because he pushed with his head alot but at first he was quite gentle, then he began to get bossy and bite , i was really scared and i guess i didnt bond with him, so i gave him to a friend that loed him, he still bites the odd person, but he doesnt have navicular and is doing great to this day, i then took on four ponies that were neglected, one of them i was really afraid of and he knew it , he would not let us do his feet but we won him round with his feet treats (carrots) lol , he wouldnt let me groom him withot trying to bite me , but he got better , but lately he has got a bit like it again with me, ears back and looking like he will chase me, i have to think of nothing when i get near him and breathe so he cant tell i’m nervous , i guess what i’m trying to say is that if you love them it will work out , perhaps the one that is biting has been hurt in the past and you dont know it, i know this one i’m talking about has been , i am 54 this year and it terrified me getting back in the saddle too lol bt i used to ride my boy charlie but he has seizures so the vet has told me i shouldnt 🙁 but i will look after them untill i cant walk anymore or they are gone , i am glad you have created your dream and i hope it works out for you , good luck
Carol
ps i am the same , i believe in being gentle and kind , i could never hurt them , i think that its no good when they obey people out of fear and not respect xx
I dont think its a question of doing anything wrong. You dont entirely know their circumstances before you got them. Clearly there is some lack of respect toward humans. I can only think that you will need to do a lot of steady groundwork with them to establish respect and a way forward so you can work with them in safety. You havent had them for long and time and consistent work with them will pay off.
I got a wild mustang at age 68 and a Arabian at age 70. I have never had horse before and was a bit nervous being around them. Both took time to make friends with. I spent hours brushing, talking to them, and really bonding with them. Neither have been broke to ride but this year we will start training with a saddle on and off. My mustang sometimes would nip but I would pop him on the nose and very sternly and my voice sharp say NO! The balance of the time I keep my voice soft, loving, telling him how pretty mommas boy was, and he responded to the kindness and after a couple of very sharp NO! he stopped the nipping. I have no expertise with horse as I have never been around them just fell in love as a child and it never left me.
I did learn a trick about a bit. Soak it in sugar water for a time and then put it in their mouth. It will taste good and they should accept it. After a few times of soaking, they take it without the soaking.
Hello Bev,
Sounds like you have a mare that is being a bit disrespectful and is trying to put you below her in the pecking order. The best thing to do is always, always, always, expect that a horse is going to bite you. Now don’t be terrified, just know that they can and will for a variety of reasons. Now, the thing you should do is gain some respect and trust between you. I good way to do that is to do groundwork. Lung, Lung, lung,…cast her away from you in a circle until you start to see her lower her head and start licking and chewing, this is a sign that she wants to submit. This will take a while, but once she has been cast away from you and worked on a consistent basis that horse will start following you around like a puppy dog with its ears forward because you are now becoming a leader. Always remember that she will bite. Keep it in your thoughts. If you are in the pasture make sure you always have a lead with you and if she comes after you with pinned ears, cast her away with your lead rope like you would if you were lunging her. If she is really aggressive and does not back off, then you should assert yourself more. Body language and if she is dangerously aggressive get a little more assertive until she backs off. Now, as far as her biting when you cinch her up..you may not have been hurting her, but someone has and she will nip at you. just know it is coming and try to tell her no before she can get any closer. Make sure she is tied so she can onley reach so far. You have only had these mares a short while and I would wait until you establish some leadership before riding again.. The more groundwork you do the better relationship you will have with your horse.
Hi Bev, I have just started working with a very skittish mare who is pregnant at my barn. My stradigy is to get the mare to trust me by spending time with her. I am feeding her some hay to keep her busy but near. I talk/sing to her quietly. With a driving whip held sideways in front of me, I use my other hand to try grooming her. If her head comes towards me the whip end comes up. If the back end comes up the whip tip comes up, not towards her but up so she knows that is not acceptable. Every so often back off and sit near her, talking/singing. Practice asking her to go away from pressure with the whip. Back off and sit. If you can, do this every day for an hour or so, more than once a day if you have the time. Always be alert to her mouth and ears and have the whip ready to use to discourage her from invading your space without being invited. At some point, you may allow her to come into your space and smell you and you blow gently into her nose. This is how horses greet each other. It takes time to get a horse to trust you enough to let you work with them. One to three months just is not enough time unless you are a professional who knows what to do and spends the time necessary. I do not have a round pen to use nor an indoor arena and it is very cold here in Wisconsin so this is what I can do now. If I had an indoor arena, I would work the horse until she hooked up with me; in other words when I turn my back to her and walk away she would follow me acknowledging me as her leader. I highly recommend looking up the website of Clinton Anderson’s Down Under Horsemanship. P.S. I had an Arab that bit me twice, both quite hard but six years apart, the second time I sold him. This was before I knew what I know now! I had a lot of good rides on him in between those six years. Be patient and spend time with them but keep yourself safe, keep the buggy whip with you.
Marge
She should definitely make sure that she isn’t feeding them from her hand. Sometimes horses will get nippy and start biting when they are fed from a hand. I do believe in smacking a horse when they bite. A smack across the nose right after being bit is the way to go. Do not hit after two or more seconds. Horses don’t really think about an action for longer than that and punishing them after that won’t work. In fact, it will surprise them and have bad consequences. Hitting their nose right after being bit will let them no that it was not okay. Just don’t hit so hard that it hurts you. Hit just hard enough to surprise the horse. They will learn that it is not okay to bite.
I agree with you Melissa,act quickly and dont just give them a little smack, give them a good smack! Surprise them with a bad consequence!
Yes definitely! That is exactly what I meant. I have never been bit by the same horse again if I smack them after being bit. It teaches them respect.
Well Bev, it’s wonderful that you are trying to fulfill your childhood dream, and that you’ve chosen to do that with rescue horse. There are far too many horses that are feeling the effects of our poor economy in America. And there are some fantastic horses that just need some TLC and patience.
However, as much as we’d all like them to be, they are not pets. They are upwards of 1000 lbs or more of pure and unpredictable muscle which makes them potentially deadly to us in the wrong situation. Though rare that a horse will deliberate try to harm us, they are animals with a herd instinct. Any successful herd has an Alpha. The Alpha is chosen by the herd based primarily on who they sense is assertive, confident, and who will protect them. Is based on trust, but that doesn’t translate the same as it does for us.
It is imperative that you establish your boundaries right away. And there is a fine line between abuse and assertiveness. Notice herd behavior: horses usually fight it out in order to decide the pecking order. It starts out as small challenges. As they get away with them, the challenges can escalate into a full on battle with serious injury, depending upon the persistence of each individual horse.
As it stands right now, you are not recognized by them as the alpha. Therefore, you are in a dangerous position. If you continue to allow this, you will get seriously hurt. It’s only a matter of time. One has already drawn blood, and that after noticing that the other one treats you as subordinate.
I am by NO means an advocate for animal brutality nor cruelty. But you MUST assert yourself and now. So, controlled force may be needed right now. It the horses bit and kick each other, then smacking them on the neck the instant they do something unacceptable with either your hand ot a crop will not hurt them much. Or you could use a lead rope with a chain at the end to jerk (not too hard) to get their attention. But be careful with the chain. Some people have hooked it up to lay on the horses bottom gum line. I think that is barbaric and unnecessary. I’ve only used it in the mildest way, which is to loop it with the chin-strap of the halter. That hasalways been sufficient. And I have never had to yank more than moderately.
Usually that has corrected any unwanted behavior within two weeks, thus discontinuing the need for it. As far as a crop, I personally have used one with two pieces of leather on the end that make a loud slapping sound together. It is very mild and the noise gets their attention.
Consistency is the key. And always keep your boundaries firm so that your horse doesn’t become confused. That will keep the lines of boundary from becoming blurred and disrespected. Once you establish these things, you will be off to a fulfilling relationship between you and your equine friend with very little and seldom need for assertion. ***important-NEVER hit a horse in the face or head-*** you don’t want to be disrespectful to them and you don’t want them to become head-shy. Also, regarding the reluctance to accept the bit, first make sure it’s the right size. The sweeten it by rubbing a thin film of toothpaste on it. Once it’s in, make sure it is adjusted properly-usually 2 wrinkles will be seen above the edges of their mouth.
I hope this helps. I am 45 year old woman who has had horses since I was 5. Over the years I have learned what I know from various vets and trainers, and also from personal experiences. Keep in mind that there are many out there who think they’re the expert and may try to force an opinion on you. What I tell people starting out is to watch other and pick and chose pieces from several sources that work for you and developed your own style of horsemanship, as long as it is safe for you and your equine friend.
I hope this helps you. Don’t get discouraged. Your horses are not rejecting you. They are simply herd animals who esteem those they feel they can trust. It isn’t about the lovey-dicey feelings we humans experience. It’s about trust, safety, and survival for them. Developed these things with them and you will indeep developed that deep and tight relationship that we all long for with our equine friends. I have had my current horse for 16 years now. He is going to be 23 soon. We have that relationship but it took a couple years to get it. And it gets better with time, so don’t lose heart. One last point, if you choose to have a trainer help you, please take time to thoroughly research them and get several references before deciding whom to entrust your horse with. And don’t be afraid to change to someone else if need be.
Take care and happy trails!
Natalie
Natalie,
I really enjoyed your advice to Bev. I have a 8 yr old TWH that was pastured for over a year and have learned the value of ground work as the key to establishing respect.
Have a great day!
Tera
Hello, i read your i read your blog and it immediatly brought mr back when i first aquired my horses…..as an adult….a middle age adult. I, too, was so intrigued be these magnificant animals, and my heart truly bled for them. Through much heartache and experience I soon learned the do’s and dont’s of horse ownership. Though we would like to see our equine friends as gentle needy “teddy bears,” we must remember that they are animals. You have mares, if Im not mistaken. And it sounds like one is a boss mare. In a natural herd, the boss mare leads the herd to graze and holds top ring of the ladder. She is “boss” and demands respect….or out of the herd you go. The stallion is only thee for protection and breeding…..SHES boss. One must establish the relationship of “smarter horse” from the very beginning, as horses are prey and must know they can depend on the leader for their very survival. You dont have to demand respect…..they will so readily give it to the one who has their best interest at heart. There are so many books and dvds on horse behaviour to help you with this issue if you choose not to contact a well established trainer. BE CAREFUL….. do your homework….in the horse world, theres so many wolves in sheeps clothing. Also, I have learned that one NEVER gives a horse treats without them earning it. Whether it be from a simple command of a turn of the head or a more complex one…..they are work animals and need to earn their rewards. Mares, turn sour quickly if not worked. Like all horses, they need to know what their job is. It could be as simple as an inhand walk around the pasture, lunging, etc. But they need a scheduale…consistancy…as it builds their confidence. Just like with children, they need guidelines are they go “wild” for its a scarey situation to be placed in a field with no expectations…..no matter how “kind” and “nurturing” we as humans are. Its instilled in all animals to exist for a reason. I hope this helps…..enjoy your horses and your journey with them…. “tee”
I think its great what you are doing, but you need to follow some basic ground rules. Going out into a pasture of horses with carrots sticking out of your pockets is asking for trouble. That will be all they want and think about. Save those treats for after your lesson or as a treat over the fence at night.
Secondly, both your horses are individuals. Treat them as such. They have their own baggage just like people do.
Never get on a horse that isn’t completely tacked up and checked for safety. That could be as simple as walking around the corral a few times to make sure they know how things feel and then you can tell if anything is bothering them.
Never let somebody “force” your horses to do anything. It diminishes their trust in you and curries resentment.
Instead do one horse a day, then the other. Go slow, take your time. Ground manners are a necessity and it is up to you to move their feet when you want and desensitize them to things they are fearful of.
I understand the history of your mares are in question. All I can tell you is a problem and solution we had with a mare we had at our boarding facility. This mare was quiet and gentle and all of a sudden she was getting nasty and biting her owner. We brought it up to our farrier and he asked if she was on “Stronged C”, which she was. He said that could be why and explained to us why (which I don’t remember right now) but we took her off it and she once again became the sweet Chica that we all loved.
It is difficult if not impossible to get a handle on your girls from what you say. No insult intended, but you are inexperienced and may have missed some signal or body language a more advanced horseperson would sense immediately.By nature rescue horses may have issues from previous treatment. All dicipline is not cruel, sometimes a shouted “no” will distract a horse from a behavior with no harm done.Remember all the out of control teens people complain about had no structure or dicipline growing up , no price to pay or respondsibility for their actions. can we expect more from a horse who doesn’t know the rules of civil behavior ?My advice get connected with a responsible horseman who can teach you as well as your girls.once they know what behavior is exceptable you will be able to relax and enjoy, SO WILL THEY.many of the ” horse whisperer” type trainers travel and do clinics , they may even be able to connect you with like minded people in your area.
If you recall the movie same name, even he had to accert dominence at one point . The double for Redford in that movie “Buck” is infact a real horse whisperer who travels to give clinics. Momma dogs even treat recalcitrant pups to the Alfa Dog treatment (you’ll agree I think that no momma is going to injure her baby.Likeing and RESPECT are both necessary. Good Luck.
Hi,
As a teenager I had some time hacking out for an hour per week. When my daughter was young I helped a friend with her ponies. So I’ve had only a brush with the horse world; I am certainly no ‘expert.’ Then, in my early 50s, in the spring this year I was given an 18 year old horse. What a learning curve! I’m an avid follower of natural horsemanship and read anything I can lay my hands on. My girl is now shoeless, bitless and treeless. I’ve not ridden her much, preferring to concentrate on building a relationship and groundwork, but she has taken to this new way of life in her stride. 10 months into our relationship I feel as if we are just breaking ground. However she was a biter! I turned to any source for help. I tried puffing myself up, stomping my feet, glaring at her and whinnying to mimic a horse response. This was to no avail. Then I read an article by Linda Parelli which advised ‘surprising’ your horse by giving it a treat. I not only surprised my horse, but discovered that she is the ‘I will do anything if there is something in it for me’ type. She still has her chestnut, mareish moments, but I keep my eyes peeled and employ all my patience, even laughing at her (yes, I know it sounds barmy!) when she turns on me. There has been a massive improvement. So, time to build a rapport, patience, eyes peeled and thinking one step ahead. Most of all a sense of humour have worked for me, Good luck. Caz
Quit the horse. Those ears are warnings there may be physiological reasons but that doesn’t matter. There are too many good ones around that you can spend your time with. Too many people try with these behaviours and end up getting hurt, turn sour themselves and quit horses. The next ones you get don’t feed them from your hand you will teach them to bite. Watch them as you girth up and don’t let them nip. You may need to jerk their halter or have some hold them but it is not on for them to think they can nip you. Good luck and please enjoy these beautiful animals,
H everyone
I have had some many horses including stallions who nip or bite. Everyone has stopped with this method even the ones i saddle and have been girth proud.
First thing regardless of wat you are doing at the time with yr horses. DONT PLAY THE GAME, wen they nip or bite.
Fisrt rule is wat ever you are doing simply keep one eye on them as they swing to nip or bite make sure they bump yr elbow ( hold yr elbow up and out in the direction of there head.)
As they swing with the head to bite you they bump into yr elbow, you continue wat you were doing at the time.
Horses find the elbow as a discomfort as you did not react or change or stop wat you were doing. Horses do not conect or blame or see you a playing the game. They tire very quickly of bumping in to your elbow as we all know its uncomfortable as im sure we all have been bumped by someone elbow at some stage of life.
SADDLING HORSES WHO NIP.
1. Show horses saddle and blanket, place it gently on the back.
2. Repeat same with saddle.Always have the elbow ready if they swing to nip, let them bump into yr elbow.
3. bring girth under the belly, touch and release a few times, have the elbow ready so they bump into it.
4. Wen girthing up one or two holes on girth only. Have the elbow ready so they again bump into it.
5. Walk the horses around with girth done up only to prevent saddle from slipping. Pat praise be friendly. When the horses is comfortable tighten girth slightly. take for a walk repeat the step until the girth is tighten and above all the horse is comfortable. After time you will see the horse no longer bites and trust you are not reefing the saddle girth up.
I allow my horses to bump into my elbow everytime they have an intest in nipping regardless of wat i am doing with them at the time.
Today none of mine bite or nip including the stallions.
I never chase them to punish i ignore an attempte nip as they bump the elbow and find that very uncomfortable.
It works for me maybe it will work for some one else.
This is the method we use and it always works, though it does need reinforcement till they learn to respect you.
last year my friend rescued a colt. He was great to start with because he was so poorly. Then he found his strength and as I am a novice (also in my 60s) with horses he decided to bite me, so I began clicker training him. It works wonders and is so easy to learn. There are lots of natural ways out there Just type in clicker training for horses.
Good luck
I have a bit of a tendency to agree with Pete, quit the horse…If not…Get TOUGH, dont pussyfoot around, we run about 40 horses together for our trail rides. Can you iamgine what it’s like going in to get 1 horse you want with a bucket of food??.
Pretty easy… BECAUSE I dont pussy foot around, let them know you are serious, I usually give them a good kick them in the chest if they are unruly and barge on in ( I couldnt possibly hurt them as much as their so called mates)Give them a good elbow …not a nudge…get into them, make them respect you…we cannot hurt them, we are physically not capable. All of our horses respect us fully because they know who is the boss. DO YOU EVER REALLY SEE HORSES PUSSY FOOT AROUND??? No….they are serious, they mean business. I love all of our horses to death, however they MUST respect you. I also have 5 quality competition horses which I treat in the exact same manner.
If one of my horses nipped or bit me, they wouldnt know what hit them! Scare the hell out of them.!
I have to agree with Jo and Pete, they are big animals, they will hurt you, even kill you, you MUST not let them take advantage of you. Be sensable don’t abuse her, just make sure she knows beyond a shadow of a doubt you do not approve of her actions. None of this “bumping”, as Jo puts it, smack the hell out of her ONCE so it sinks in. Or get rid of the horse, I know you love her, but do you like to hurt? Ok, I’ve said enough, it either sinks in or not,,not mean, just direct.
Keep up the good work.Spend as much time as you can with the girls so they know you are there for them and there is nothing to fear. You should make sure there is nothing physically hurting them by a Vet check
Ground work is SO important before you get on and thrown again that is how you gain respect only by moving their feet just as the other horses will do. I dont agree with the chain
as one other has said but it is very true about letting them bump into you elbow. Keep you elbow moving as if you were marching with a purpose
go about your buisness of grooming or whatever
and if they run into you oops.. they did it to themselves and will not cause them to fear you b/c they did it and if they get out of line STOP what you are doing with in 3 sec move their feet big time right then and there. do it as many times as it takes you will find it will be less and less time but you have to be consistant
good luck
My mare also tries to nip at times, I use the elbow bump. One bump with her mouth on my elbow is enough, she doesn’t try again. Mares can be very opinionated and pushy, work on your groundwork it will make all the difference.
Thanks for a great article. Now can someone tell me what I can do about another biting problem????. I look after 6 horses and one of them always bites and kicks the others. She is an Arabian mare and the smallest of them all. The other horses are thoroughbreds with lovely manners and she is such a bully.
Any suggestions?????
Seperate the bully! And let the nice ones live in peace!
😎 what an awesome website Al has created!So much feedback for Bevs problem in USA and its all good!
Hello, the issue with your horse is a lack of respect for you as the leader – I beleieve some other people mentioned this. A horse would never bite their leader.
If you have a roundyard put the mare in their, remove the halter so she is free and then chase her around the yard – at a canter if possible – use lots of energy but no aids such as a whip or rope if you can help it. Make sure you get her going both ways – when she is going around one way step in and make her go the other – if she tries to duck back or go the way she wants do NOT allow her to, she must go the way you want her to – raise your energy if she tries to put it over you in any way – raise your arms and your voice. Then tell her whoa – lower your energy and turn your back on her – she should stop and look at you. Turn to face her but keep your eyes down – walk towards her with very low energy – go to her wither and pat her on the neck then walk away – she should follow you – if not, raise your energy and send her around again doing the above again. When she chooses to follow you when you walk away from her then she has chosen you and she should then listen to you. Groom her or saddle in the round yard with NO headstall etc. the minute she tries to bite you or not stand still, raise your energy and send her around the yard as above. This process can take a few goes but is very worth it = I have had some excellent results with horses that would not allow me to trim their hooves – a session in the round yard and both horse stood with no halters etc and let me trim all four hooves without a hint of trouble.
It is very common for mares to be sensitive around the girth.
I agree with col Ekers. Anyway all horses should be saddled up and bitted with the same respect and gentleness. Slowly. The bit can be extremely painful. Perhaps the problem you had with the bit could have had something to do with teeth. Have they been checked by an equine dentist? Perhaps she remembers a painful episode in her mouth.
I just love you guys! I paid very close attention to what all of you have said and I thank you very much. Just the other day Moka,the biter charged me at the fence, just as I finished feeding her and I threw my arms out wide and yelled HAY…NO! Ha…she stopped and looked so shocked! Since then? Ears not back and has a bit of a new attitude. Now that’s not to say all is well…but it sure made a difference. Thanks again SO much!
I have just started with my horse, I’m 33 and never thought my dream would come true. Green broke quarter cross haflinger between 5 and 6 years old mare. She wouldn’t take the bit at all, needless to say we tried a rope and put 2 knots in it and put it over her nose. It doesn’t hurt them but they will give in if you put it in the right spot. Leave it in and and then take it out after 5 minutes. Approach and retreat, each time leaving it in a little longer. Eventually they will learn to trust you. The biting thing has happened to me and since I’m new with horses, my trainer told me to throw my elbow up in their face. They will think twice before doing it. You can also look up Clinton Anderson and watch some of his videos, once you get their feet under control they will be on the thinking side of the brain.
Biting can also be a dominance issue. This is what a dominant horse can and will do to keep a subordinate in line. I know it can really hurt but the best response is to immediately grab a hunk of skin and pinch/twist hard…I don’t like jobbing them in the mouth…it is to make her understand in hrose terms that biting is not acceptable. In future I would advise haltering,using a rope halter, and if either tries it again pinch/twist and then get in her face and FIRMLY but not jerkily bang on the lead rope and back her up…she will throw her head around and may even rise…so make sure you have a long rope…but keep after her…each and every time they back down and submit…make sure you give them a good rub and tell them in your kindest voice it’s…your not angry now…horses are immediate…your response must be immediate…and your acceptance of their submission needs to be quick too. Good luck and make sure yu use a long rope to give yourself space…be safe with them. Good luck
Just want to say I’m in Washington state too. i live out in yakima valley area. Anyway a friend of mine and I train horses for bulldogging (steer wrestling) and we got this one runaway barrel horse that was really mean she would bite and kick. What i did was I took her into her pen and round penned her for about 10 minutes having her go one way for a few circals then the other way for a couple. when i got her to “join up ” with me i tried to brush her. As soon as she nipped at me i sent her around in circals again soon she realized that everytime she bit me or tried to bite me she would have to go work but if she stood still, she could relax and not have to do anything. after that she would let me saddle and bridal her just fine, we could pet and brush her with out getting any mean reactions. She is now a great horse and she absolutly LOVES getting brushed 😀
Hi Bev
When a horse lays its ears back, bites, kicks, or does anything that might be thretening to the handeler, dose not mean that the handeler has hurt or inflicted any discomfort to the horse.So it is not what you are doing wrong that is causing the horses behaviour.
Horses need to feel that they have a strong leader so often they will use this type of behaviour to test our leadership abilities. It is how we react that lets the horse know how good of a leader we are.
When we move away or retreet from the horse it displayes poor leadership and tells the horse that they are dominant,and that they can be disrespectfull and be our leader, whitch causes a very dangerouse relationship… A 150 to 200 Pound person Dose not fear well aginst a 800 to1000 pound horse.
So Love is not always the answer.( I will not tell you to doe anything mean or that will cause harm to an animal.) The answer to disrespectifull behaviour has a simple answer. The dominant horse in the pasture never lets any other horse threaten or challenge its LEADRESHIP. When another horse threatenes or challenges The leader dose not retreete but always makes the chalenger retreete or move out of its space. (The game is whoever feet moves first is the looser) This is what horses understand naturaley.
SO the answer to having a respectfull horse is, when a horse uses any action that can be called being pushey or being thretening or disrespectfull can be corected by making the horse move away from you, it dose not matter whitch direction you make the horse move just make them move away from you, as a horse understands that you can make them move out of your space they will understand that you are a good LEADER and will be happy to be a GOOD FOLLOWER, This is how horses act in herds as long as the herd feels they have a good LEADER they are happy.
Best Wishes
Hi Bev,
When a horse bites you it it a sign of disrespect. She is nipping you because you are in ‘her’ space, and she obviously thinks of herself as the dominant horse. If a horse bites a dominant horse, most times the dominant horse will fight back. When she bit you did you walk away? If so that was teaching her that “Hey, when I bite this person they leave me alone.”. Start off in a enclosed area such as a roundpen, small arena or on a lunge line. When the horse even threatens to bite or pins her ears, make her run. You should also give her a smack on the butt with a rope, not like a whip just a “hey, don’t do that” – make it hard enough so that it will be a warning (make sure to stay clear of their back feet, many horses will kick you if you aren’t careful). If you are in a roundpen or lunging, wait until she pins her ears, when she does this make her trot or canter around you. Wait until she shows a sign of submission such as licking, chewing or putting their head down really low. When she does this stop making her run and step back, keep repeating this and she will learn that when she is submissive – that you will stop chasing her and making her do work. You should repeat this until she starts showing signs of submission almost instantly, and no longer pins her ears. Ask her to come in again and do things that normally make her nip or pin her ears, if she does pin them send her out again and make her run. She will realise it is easier to let you do what you are doing, than running around and getting tired. Also don’t bite the horse or hurt her. It won’t teach them much at all. I’ve retrained 3 horses that were girthy, nipped when you went near them with food and just plain dominant over humans.
I had a nipper and I grabbed his mouth with thumbs down each cheek and had my fingers firmly gripping the inside cheek while i played with the inside of his cheek. as he pulled away I kept a grip and kept playing with the inside of his cheek. it took just a couple of times and he knew any time he nipped i was going into this mouth to irritate him…he didn’t get the response he wanted and quit by the second or third time. it isn’t mean, doesn’t teach fear…just unpleasant response when they do something they shouldn’t and made him quit at his will,not mine. easy peasy.
I had a stallion that would bite and rear in dominance, but I figured a good way to protect myself and prevent him wanting to do it again,…I made a long stick with 2 wide wire brushes mounted on it and when I saw the ears go back, and him stretch his neck to bite I stuck the brush on infront of the part he was going for( usually an arm)and if he run into it oops.. he did it to himself! It should not cause them to fear you b/c they did it and I didn’t hurt them. Biting me hurt them. Do it as many times as it takes you will find it will be less and less time but you have to be consistant!Also friendly, after…It worked like a charm! And now they never bite.
Its lovely to hear that older people are into horses again. I’m 65 and have a half arabian half thoroughbred and I love her. I’m the one with pieces of carrots in my pocket. Arabians are funny animals, but I’ve never been bitten or kicked. If she does something wrong I sing out “oy, oy oy oy yo” and walk away (much to her surprise the Vending Machine has gone). If she does something I am absolutely not happy with, she gets the staring eyes, hands raised up in clawing fashion and a real growl. But I must add I have had her since she was a yearling (now 10 years old) and we understand each other so well. She trusts me, but the feeling is not returned as she is a horse and I am a human and sometimes don’t think like a horse.
We ride treeless, we ride sometimes with a bit but she is happier bitless. I am very tactful about saddling her up. The main thing is that she is such a friend. I will forgive her for quirky behaviour, but I think she forgives me more for being a silly human being.
Best of luck with Mocca. Arabians are wonderful, but they keep testing you until they are completely happy and then off you go.
The main thing is to show them no fear. Hard to do if you are older and have MS, This doesn’t involve hitting them or biting them. Get eye contact and shout out your feelings “You bloody bastard!!!” Then walk away with your hands behind your back. Works on a shetland too.
😎 To the Lady with the biting horse, named Bev, you are going to have to be a lot more firm with your horse and let her know who is boss, otherwise this will happen again & again, also when you are grooming you should tie her on a short lead otherwise you will be allowing her to do that again.mares can be a little nasty at times, when i saddle my mare i alway tie her short because she has done this also, other than that callin a horse whisperer. I`m contacting you from a Australia Bev, i also just want to say good luck with it.
😀 Hi Bev from Australia,
I am 59 and have gotten back into horses after a very long time, like you, I did not think that that horses would enter my life again. Be kind to yourself, work on getting the ground manners correct, I have been told that your body language is essential, assertive body language that is. I have owned my 9 yr old thoroughbred for over a year, I work her on the ground and I am still working to gain that trust and respect. I will not give up. You sound like an amazing person, I am sure that with all the great advice that you have been given via this web site, you will form the bond with both your horses, I know that I have learnt a lot through this fantastic web site. Cheryl
Hi Bev,
I’m 65 and someone gave us a miniature horse with no respect at all for the humans. You are just there to serve him, feed him clean up after him. He was such a cheeky little guy would box with you when you wanted him to do something and would of course bite, For the bitting when I saw signs of him wanting to do this when he came up to me and tried to bite I would gab a hold of his muzzle and sqeeze it he did not like that and it has been 3 months now and he has not bitten us or my grand-daughters. Good luck and don’t give up things do get better
Hi Bev,
I believe in trust and respect between horses and humans, But, a biting horse is dangerous, regardless of the reasons. Horses usually bite each other to show who is boss and control the pecking order, but there are other reasons. It is important to understand why your horse is wanting to bite, is it because your pinching when saddling up? is there an abuse issue? or is it a pecking order issue? Once you figure that out, you must learn how to deal with it. When my husband and I first got our horses, they had little human contact. My husband was bit several times by his horse, she was bad for trying to bite his back or shoulder when he was leading her. This was an obvious leadership dispute. He did end up giving her a smack on her chest, (never the face or head) and she stopped immediately, that was 10 years ago. My mare was sensitive about being saddled, she would turn and give me a warning, she never bit. I stopped that by keeping my elbow bent and pointed at her head. When she would turn aggressive at me, I would raise my elbow abit, and she would bump her nose into my elbow, this was enough unpleasant pressure to get her to stop. Good Luck.
Respect yourself and then maybe the horse will respect you. Why would anyone let something or someone push them around. A swift, instant response is the only thing a horse respects. A nice chat will not work. I DON’T mean beat them with a 2 x 4, but a rap on the nose or neck (not your hand) is letting them know that there is a consequence for their actions. Otherwise you will have a spoiled “child”. A 1000 pound spoiled child. You wouldn’t give a child a piece of candy after he/she kicked you in the shins. Biting them back or grabbing their mouth, is just asking for trouble. You could get stomped into the ground. Maybe a older, seasoned horse would be better.
I had a horse that would bite when saddled. I found if I don’t tighten the girth immediately, and walk him to the center of the ring, then slowly tighten the girth and of course stretch him it seems to work. You have to do it a few times till the horse realizes he is not going to get cinched up tight as soon as the saddle is put on his back.
just from plying with horses, when I have an opportunity to get a new horse, I do some ground work with him. Does the horse respond to a lunge line — does he stay out of my space — does he have a relaxed body — etc
I find if a horse doesn’t take the bit, at some time in his life people shoved the bit in his mouth so often, he now refuses it. I found putting some molasses or apple sauce or baby carrots on the bit let him lick it and hold the bit to his mouth – dont put in. In a few trys he possibly would take the bit. but you might have to still use the props for awhile. these are just my opinions and my experieces. hope it helps
I have a horse I rescued she first of all was taken from her mother at 2 months and was starving when I bought her. a year later she is growing well she is now 19 months old and my sweetheart but last week out of the blue while cleaning her hoof she decided to take it back but I wasn’t through and didn’t let her have it. She turn and bit me for the 1st time. I dropped her leg and turned and gave her the hardest back kick (I hold 4 black belts in Martial arts) and to my suprise she went in the corner of her stall and pouted! well the ferrier was coming that day and when I told him what she had done he said I did what her mom would have done. We can love horses to peices but we have to understand how they think. With Kimber she is a filly and learning but horses also play this way and dominate this way so let her know who’s boss (one of you has to be) and then you should have all her respect. Its like teaching a child to respect their parents but only in horse.
@ Shelly, “I can ride her for about fifteen minutes then she will start to shift her back legs but my opinion on it is hey she is going to be 24 in a few months and she has done a lot it is time to just use her brain.”
Chances are the horse has a issue with her back. whether it is simply that the saddle doesn’t fit like it used too or maybe a vertebrae is aggravated. By shifting her legs she is adjusting to ease pain.
@ Bev
I too have a few nippers in my crowd. Two are paso finos. My stallion would constantly try to bite when we first got him. I constantly poppedhis muzzle telling him no firmly for about three days straight.. on the fourth day I went to pinching his lip and he decided it was enough.
one of my mares on the other hand will occasionally still try. unfortunately for us both I am much firmer with her and usually it takes only one correction to have her stop.. but on truly aggressive days making her move her feet and reminding her that she is not alpha seems to work.
I have two horses one arab and one standard bred, completely different horsenalities,the arab mare is 16 and a right brained introvert and the standie is 4 and a left brained extrovert.He is also mouthy,we saved him from the slaughter yards,he generally plays alot with things,brooms, buckets,chairs, if i’m working in the paddock he will try and pick up anything i put down.When it comes to feed time he shows dominant behaviour, it would help if you knew your horses horsenality so that you can treat her accordingly , some things will just not work with some horses,you could actually make things worse if your not careful and your safety is more important than anything else.We were told to smack him, this didn’t work he didn’t respond how i thought he would , he just tried to become quicker and better at it than me.I quickly changed my response,I made eye contact with him, used a very stern voice and put my hand up with my palm facing him, at his eye level,so he could see it,at first he was not sure whether i was going to follow through with a smack,but once he realised that i wasn’t going to do that,he approached me in a different manner.I still continue with this method , it hasn’t stopped him completely because part of his nature is to be that way and i dont want to take that beautiful curiosity and confidence that he has.He has improved greatly and i am sure he will continue to do so, patience,continuity,kindness,love and language, all the things you already have will help you through this.Good luck with your horses,and don’t give up on them,someone else has already done that to them before.
I have used John Lyons’ method with success on every horse who’s been a biter.
hi have a small 10acre horsie heaven. or i thinkso. all geldings and mares run together with yougsters up to 2years and my three boys a stallion and histwo sons run together in thier paddocks.yep biting and nipping a regular thing .from an early age (foals) itry to be an aunty mare when they start being cheeky i raise my leg up so my foot behind me , as if im going to kick or if i see teeth i stick the points of my fingers in and slap pinch as hard as needed to stamp your place in the pecking order.try finding a place on your ground which is mostly your space bring your horse to you so you are at the top of the pecking order. try the slap pinch when you see biting starting or when grooming try the pokie thumb on the girth line. the secret is tell the horse of then forget it happened straight away and carry on as normal it will take a few goes but you will get there. take care and be carefull xcandy
I had a similar problem with my sec A mare when she came to me as a ‘bogof’ with my gelding. I put prickly brushes all up my arms held in place with elastic bands. When she went to take a chunk out of me she got a mouthful of prickly brush. She only did it the once and now I have had her for 7 years and she has never bitten me again! Good luck 🙂
Hi Bev;
Your horses have emotional issues that need to be addressed. They are in emotional and physical pain and discomfort and have nutritional deficiencies that are not being met. Love and kindness can only go so far when one is in constant pain and discomfort.
Please remember, that emotional issues do not go away. They can be over-ridden and dampened down through supportive measures, but they will never go away until addressed — released and grounded from their emotional energy field. In all my experience this has always been the case and until that is achieved, we will always deal with symptoms. In any regard, there are some things you can do.
The first thing is to give them nutritional support with an emphasis on magnesium. A good animal chiropractor would be a good choice as well. Your horses are obviously in pain and discomfort.
Another thing is never invade their space no matter how much you may want to express your love and caringness. We need to respect their space and one way to do that is to see if they would like to join your herd. You must make that offering to them each and every time they are approached. A simple way would be to extend your arm out, palm down, and offer them the back of your hand — and be in a slightly bent over stance — not upright, straight or tall. But approach them with NO expectancies but to honor their choice.
So approach them with arm extended and directly in front of them and present the back of your hand as close to their muzzle as you can but DO NOT TOUCH their muzzle. Just hold it CLOSE to the muzzle — maybe an inch or two away. If THEY touch your hand with their muzzle, that is a sign that they are willing to join your herd so to speak and you have their permission to enter their space. A good time to pet them and scratch but don’t over do it.
If they do not touch your muzzle, accept that and turn around and walk away a reasonable distance — 10 feet maybe. Distance isn’t that critical. Just put space between you and them because they rejected your offer. Wait a few minutes and approach them calmly and slowly and again offer them the back of your hand. If they accept, okay. If not then walk away again, wait and repeat the cycle over again. If they still don’t want to join your herd, respect that and try again at a later time. In each instance you are respecting them and their decision. They will acknowledge that in time.
In my view, it is incumbent to do this every time you want to greet your horses, groom them, go riding or whatever. Rhetorical question. Would we like for someone to just come up to us and enter our space and start grooming us, saddling us, etc., without our permission? I don’t think so. Yes, many people do that to horses, and horses tolerate it, but they don’t necessarily like it. I never approach a horse until I get its permission. In my view, we should never take these wonderful Beings for granted even if they are often forgiving.
Also, please remember that horses mirror back to us whatever we are feeling at the time and will respond accordingly.
And finally, I also live in WA state in the Arlington area. If you live somewhat nearby, I would be glad to help your horses release and ground their emotional trauma. If not, may I suggest an energy worker near your area who knows what they are doing.
Good luck,
John
Hi Bev, for me nipping, biting is to look at what it means. Your horse is trying to say I am fed up now as you have missed what I have been trying to tell you and anyone for that matter.
Look at mouth, teeth, tongue, bit, and whatever else goes with mouth, then diet, hay, grazing, stomach ,vitamins, minerals, water and what relates to it. Horses do not bite for fun its their way of saying “please wake up and help me”
Mary Carey South Africa
Get into natural horsemanship to learn how to think like a horse. This is sounding dangerous for an older gal, like me. When you learn your horses’ horsenalities you will understand what they need from you. Your mare wouldn’t dream of biting the lead mare so you need to learn how to be one. I don’t think smacking her will work for you. Good luck – love and affection are important, but respect is #1. 🙂
I had a biter sent to me to be trained. He was bored, smart, not spooky and a recently gelded. I held my hand to his mouth and let him try to bite. As soon as he opened his mouth to bite, (I could hear it opening) I would pull my hand away quickly. This let him know that this was not acceptable. It worked, he no longer bites. I also started training him for the cart and this gave him something to do. He was pulling the cart within 2 weeks, with a hackamore and no blinders. He sits down for his grain. He always has to earn a treat. If your horse is shy, then you can give them a treat just for coming up to you. They’ve earned it by coming to you. Once your horse is easy to catch, you have to think up ways to make them earn the treat. Teach them new things. I give my horses a treat for coming when I call them and for putting their halter and/or bridle on. I always give it to them out of my hand and they use their lips to take it. I don’t have any trouble with biting once they’re trained.
First of all let me state that I have not read all the other suggestions. Some might be similar to mine. Mine come from my personal experience in dealing with difficult horses. Raquel’s were great but they don’t address your inexperience.
Bev, you are NOT too old for this, but, you have jumped in a big pile of mess and didn’t know what you were doing. Good for you coming here! You need to get educated about horses. Especially since you have two now. This is one place but hands on is better. Go somewhere that teaches horsemanship. Hang out with the barn rats. Learn from the kids. They will teach you a lot. IR volunteer at a training barn or any place where there are others that can help you learn. Observe others working with difficult horses. Read Read Read, watch all the videos you can on RFDTV. Don’t give up on these horses, they need you. You are a savior for them. What you have experienced is scary, but, nothing compared to what others have suffered in caring for horses. If it is too much then do the right thing and take too steps backward. Sell them or find them new homes, and start again by taking lessons and boarding out a horse first.
My suggestions – First horse: Bev says her horse nipped her when her friend “cinched her too tight and pinched her” then “she wouldn’t take the bit and my friend tried to force the issue” and “I got thrown, I was holding her halter, and Shasta reared and went down.” Let me say with all respect that, I think you need to find a more knowledgeable horse friend. One who knows how to work around NEW horses that might have unknown reactions. Your friend created a bad experience for your horse that you now will now have to work out with the horse. All of the reactions might have created the reason she pushed you down OR the horse might have done it anyway. It doesn’t sound like the horse was given any chance to adjust to new people, new experiences and reacted to heavy handed handling. BUT she didn’t trust you or your friend. She didn’t have a chance to settle in with you. In my experience, your friends tactics might work with some horses, but NOT most.
I have experience with many “rescues” They always seemed to end up with me. It must be karma for me and the horse. We always clicked and they always trusted me. My family members say I “spoiled” them. Not that I gave them lots of treats. Just that they behaved for me but not always for others.
A new horse of mine threw a “boyfriend” into the side of a barn and put him in the hospital. All over the wrong bridle, wrong bit, and heavy handed jerking on reins. I was out of town and the person thought they were doing me a favor by riding my new horse. The horse was safe with me. What I found out about him over the many years I owned him was, that he would NOT put up with any “COWBOYING” and was always nervous around other people until he figured out they weren’t going to hurt him. Later in life, he would tolerate my riding students without nervousness, but, when they weren’t riding properly or paying proper attention he would take control and run over to me. As if saying “get this fool off my back. Over the years he became a gentleman with gentle firm handling. With this same horse I came up on the barn one day and saw, 5 military men, vet and barn assistants, trying to hold him for his annual shots. There were standing orders in this military base barn, that if the vet is coming let me know so I can be there. He was rearing and dancing around on the end of three lead ropes attached to his halter. Picture in your mind the “Black Stallion”. That is a good reference for your issues because if you remember the story, no one else could handle the stallion, he trusted only the boy who was kind to him. In this case, I walked up, demanded in my deepest voice “give me my horse”, jerked twice on the lead, told him to settle, and he stood stock still. He trusted that I would NOT let anyone hurt him. Of course all 5 men looked at little ole me like I was a crazy girl to come anywhere near this monster. I told the vet, OK come do what you need to do. There was no problem. The moral of these two stories is this: My horse trusted me, was great for me but was a different animal around others.
SO, these horses DON”T know you, don’t trust you and YOU don’t KNOW them or their “quirks”. How they behaved with their other owners should NOT be a starting point for you. You have to build new, trusting, experiences of your own.
Nipping when being saddled is not unusual for many horses. It can be prevented, but, it is a quirk you didn’t know to watch for. NOT taking rough handling when bitting is NORMAL. Some horses have teeth problems and do better WITHOUT A BIT. Furthermore, you might have been trying to put a bridle / bit on that didn’t fit the horse correctly.
Go back to first base. Any new horse is an unknown entity. NO MATTER what the previous owner said. The horse is new to you and you to it.
AND every horse CAN hurt you, NO MATTER HOW sweet they are or seem to be.
A horse has to bond with its NEW person. Horses are NOT naturally trusting of people particularly new people in new places. Also, it senses YOUR nervousness and reacts to that too. SHES NERVOUS where is the danger? is what the horse is reacting to. You have to be calm, firm, kind, and respectful to build trust with a horse.
So for the first horse: She may be a “biter” but, I think she is just reacting to stimulus, tightening the girth. “Biters” usually don’t need a stimulus beyond a person standing nearby.
1. Work on head tying and having your horse stand still. Build confidence by giving your horse something to do, like eating hay. Make the horse’s experience with you something they look forward to and enjoy. Groom your horse, handle its feet, sit beside it relaxing while the horse relaxes. Do this by yourself with no help. Others can come around later and help desensitize the horse but it has to trust you first. Your horse needs to bond with you and trust you.
2. When your horse lets you work around it with no anxiousness, carefully rest the saddle on its back un- girthed. Do other stuff, comb out the mane and tail, clean the face, let the horse eat hay.
3. If the horse is relaxed with the saddle on its back, bring up the girth loosely, and let it rest, do something else, then tighten it slowly, in increments. NOT all in one jerk. If the horse moves her head towards you to look, speak to her, pat her neck. Let her know you are not going to hurt her. Wait for her to relax before tightening the saddle more. Do this every time you saddle her so she learns you are NOT going to hurt her with the girth.
Eventually, you should be able to do anything you want to the horse and they should stand still even without being tied. Work on ground tying after the horse will stand calmly tied. Tell the horse to “stand” every time it moves when you are trying to do something. They are moving because they don’t understand what you want, want to do what they want or want you to quit doing what you are doing. You keep trying and don’t give up until they stand. Stand, Stand, Stand, around in a circle, until they stand still. Then you take the pressure off. That is the reward for standing still.
Next horse: “she had been left totally alone for years and wasn’t attended to at all. I gave her, her first carrot!”
So… you gained her confidence with treats. You go into the pasture with treats, BTW she can smell them, and you were NOT forth coming……
She bit you because you didn’t do what she expected. GIME MY TREAT!!!!!
I had a similar experience with an older mare I now own, also a rescue. This mare is absolutely a mare anyone can ride. BUT she is a mugger for treats. She can smell peppermints in your pocket across the pasture. I had had her for about 2 months when I entered her in our county fair. The deal was, she was on display in the animal tent for two weeks. Since all the ecoli scares from county fairs no one is allowed to feed the animals. BUT Honey is looking to everyone for treats. So in the evenings when I visited her, I would give her some. The last day as we were breaking down the animal tent, I was standing with my back to her pen, talking to another exhibitor who was admiring her. I had treats in my pocket, she had her head over the pen rail right beside my face. She reached over and nipped my cheek hard. I could have easily lost the right side of my face. She wanted her treats and I was NOT paying attention to her. She knew I had them. What did I do wrong? I stood there with her treats, not paying attention to her, when she let me know it. Did I let her know she had done wrong? Yes! I quickly smacked the side of her face with my open hand. After I checked to be sure I wasn’t bleeding, I went back and gave her her treats. The moment had passed. We went on with life.
These two incidents are only the beginning of what can be a lifetime experience. Can you handle more upsets is the question. Remember, every horse can hurt you at any time. If that makes you too nervous, then you really shouldn’t be around horses. We choose the risks we take. You have learn how to minimize the risks around horses. BUT the risk is always there!
Good luck!
Susan
If you watch a group of horses, they all bite for various reasons to show their displeasure, but they will not bite the boss horse. Well, except for my mini, but that is another story. Well, when I first got my 5 year old mare Lulu and 3 other full size horses, they were the first horses that I had ever owned in my 60 some odd years. One morning, while Lulu was eating some hay out of her hay bucket I walked up to her and hugged her on her back. I know people warn about bothering animals while eating, but I am a believer that since you feed them they must respect you while they are eating. Anyway, I hugged Lulu, and she immediately turned her head and bit me HARD on my side. She knew I was there, I did not sneak up on her or anything. Well, I immediately smacked her on the nose (not hard), grabbed her head and wagged my finger in her face while loudly reprimanding her, then stormed away. For the rest of the day, I would have nothing to do with her. When she would approach I would walk away. She finally came up to me with her head lowered and buried her head in my chest, I am sure asking for forgiveness. She has never bitten me again. And if she ever starts to misbehave, like lowering her ears and giving the butt to one of the other horses, I only have to say her name loudly and hold up my wagging finger and she immediately stops. That biting incident was her way of testing me to see who was boss horse.
Now, my mini Raskul is a different story. He is not a biter but rather a pesky nipper. He will nip anybody. He will run up behind the big horses, nip them in the butt, then scamper off trying to get somebody to chase him. He will come up to me and nip my pockets trying to see if I have any hidden treats. When I am petting and hugging him, he will nip me. I have tried breaking him of that habit. I have tried nipping him back, but that does not work. I have tried snapping him on the nose while saying “NO”, but that does not work. In fact, he now knows the “3 second rule” (reprimand them within 3 seconds, or they will forget what they had done….right, like horses forget anything…LOL ). Now, if he nips, he turns his head away from me for three seconds, then turns back with that ha ha , can’t get me look. I think he is just a lost cause. I must be a real glutton for punishment, as I am getting a 6 month old girl mini in a week or so….hope she is not a nipper.
🙄 I want to ask a question. How do you stop a horse from trying to bite you when you are trying to tighten the sinch? And she has kicked at me once.
Hi, just to throw in my 2 cents worth. I was also 63 when I got my 19 yr.old gelding, Ruffian.I spent the first year never even getting on his back. He had been allowed to just do his own thing for 19 yrs. I started by just hanging out with him in a paddock, so we were close together but not getting in his space, he slowly got curious and came closer and closer as the days went by. Then a halter, then walks around the paddock then little walks out of there. Grooming was then done everyday. Then GROUND WORK can’t tell you how important it is for that. He needed to learn to respect my space and it takes lots of time with an older horse. But now he is amazing so just be patient and kind. Oh by the way I go bitless and never had a a control problem, maybe try it when just going for a lesson in the round pen with you on the ground and your horse just walking with the bridle on. Slow and steady, you will be amazed.
Bev what moka did is EXTREAM. Whatever her reasons, fear abuse whatever it is very dangerous. It usually takes a lot to make a horse that mean be it done by humans or other animals. This is her response. Your inexperience and her miserable past is not healthy. You are playing with fire. At your age there are so many WONDERFUL horses that will give you the love you deserve easily. Keep this old mareif you want to but either coral her where you can teach her basic maners or segregate her in the pasture. The other horse doesnt need the hassel either. You might think shasta is dominant but if it is a constant test it is not relaxing for shasta. Please be careful. Saying “aye no” may have surprised her but she is old and set in her ways. She could very well NAIL you when your guard is down. I am strongly concerned for your safety. Check the adoption agencies. They match horses to humans. Keep the other two but geta lover and learn horse language from a horse that appreciates you.
Ps: there is an old saying: if a gelding puts his ears back it might not mean too much. If a mare puts her ears back….watch out!!! Ive always had both mare’s and geldings and still do. Bev …even in the movie…
buck ….he said that stallion was a menace to society. Your life is valuable and you have the accomodation to help so many horses that could make you feel like you were half way to heaven. Don’t waste years missing out on the love and unity of a good horse. There is just nothing in this whole world like it.
Sometimes if they are biting when saddling they might be trying to tell you the saddle is pinching. That said my mare started biting when I was brushing her,she bit me on the shoulder so bad it tore the skin,really hurt. A friend of mine,who is into natural horsemanship, told me a technique works like a charm.If you are in an area that is clear where she can’t hurt herself when she bites you for three or four seconds scream loudly,jump up and down and wave your arms over your head.Only do it for those few seconds the horse will think its going to die,jump and run or bolt away.Then just calmly and quietly go back to normal talk to her and pet her if she bites agaain do for 3 seconds again. if they know that is going to happen every time they bite it stops quickly. Doesn’t hurt them but scares the beegebes out of them.A couple times and she was done biting.
I too a “seasoned” lady of 65. I too received a rescue horse who was headed for the slaughter house. His “rescuer” was a neighbor. They tried rough handling and taught this horse not to trust anyone. Long story short, the horse ended up at my house, totally wild and mean. I thought he had promise, my husband thought I was crazy. I am no expert and I have made many mistakes. If I were to advise in your situation, I would say back up and gain trust before you try riding or anything that can get you hurt. Many days of lounge work and voice commands. working at just leading quietly. I hope you have an enclosed area where you can work with your horses because that makes it soo much easier. It took about 3 months before I was comfortable with Victor and he with me. Then we went real slow. Now i am riding bareback and we are ok .It is never a finished product but it is a journey. just go slow and let trust build. I think your horses have been mistreated and they are distrustful. Give them time to learn that you are not going to hurt them.
This horse is being a horse. It wanted you away and bit you and it got what it wanted. Same way it would tell another horse to move out. What happened to this horse before is really of no consequence you have just taught her that biting gets her what she wants release of pressure i.e.: you to go away. Next time she tries this and she will smack her hard, chase her relentlessly put the pressure on her make her understand biting does not get her release it gets her more pressure.
With horses you have to be a leader, I’m not trying to sound mean at all and it isn’t hurting the horse at, it is putting them in their place. if the horses bite you again talking isn’t going to do anything. you have to stand your ground and a quick tap on their nose with the back of your hand might help. I’m not saying punching, but a simple reminder to them that they shouldn’t be pushing you around. this is the only time i would ever do anything that may seem remotely mean to my horse, but hey some horses need it and my horse hardly ever bite(once a year or every couple years) and when they do i stop it immediately. it will also start a balance for you and the horses, they will learn that your in charge and if you don’t want them to do that you’ll tell them, just like another horse would, by reacting and standing its ground.
Hi Bev,
I too got my horse later in life. I was out of fly spray one day and decided to use a mixture of vinegar and water to help until I could get to the store. He didn’t much care for my all natural fly spray and bit me hard on my arm. I was new to horses but decided we will fix this right now…I put on a halter him and took the training stick and backed him up the pasture. When he stopped I made him walk in circles and backed him some more. Finally he dropped his head and stood still. I rubbed him and took his halter off and left him standing there. He has never bit me again. I never hit him, just tapped him with the training stick to make him move his feet.
There is a saying about horses behavior that I like. “Stallions you ask, Geldings you tell, Mares you negotiate with.”
The ear pinning needs to be corrected just as much as biting. Humans have backed off when she pinned get ears and she learned hey I an pin my ears n they give me a treat or back away or whatever she wants. The way I would fix it is in the round pen. Everytime she puts ears back or doesn’t face u respectfully make her move her feet u don’t have to make her run or hit her get a long whip and just make her move u do not have to hit them with it eventually she will learn u are her leader they need to learn to respect u as much as love u a disrespectful gorse can be dangerous but we do it to them without even knowing it I did it to my yearling and have had to correct it they like to have a leader it makes them feel more comfortable hope this helps
Bev,
You didn’t mention what part of Washington. I also live in that state – in the SW portion about 20 miles north of Vancouver. I hope you heard about and were able to attend the Washington State Horse Expo held last weekend at the Clark County Event Center. Many great clinicians there – they usually have a Q&A session at the end of their clinic.
I agree with two things brought up by others: you need to be Herd Leader and don’t hand feed treats. My two horses would easily become treat-aggressive if allowed. They get treats rarely and never on a regular schedule.
There are two times when hitting a horse is OK. If the horse tries to go over the top of you (like loading into a trailer or going through a gate). Two or three hard wallops with the lead rope (always behind the shoulder and above the knees and hocks). The other time is biting – ONE hard smack on the face or neck. These should be accompanied by a lot of yelling (and/or cursing) and arm waving from you, that lasts less than a minute. These two bad habits can seriously hurt you and MUST be stopped.
Horses, dogs, kids – all need to be loved and cared for. They also need to respect you.
Parelli natural horsemanship. You and your mares will be forever grateful if you are willing to do the work. The best part about it is you will feel great about what you are learning and doing and so will your horses.
I know this may now fare well with some of you but this worked for me. I had a gelding that bit me twice the 15 years I owned him. The first time he was still a stud. I was brushing him and he reached around an bit me. I grabbed his nose, twisted it and ran him backwards a few yards. To a horse, that’s no more than being bitten back. Remember, they are tough and it was more of a shock than painful. He didn’t even attempt to bite again until years later, when he got impatient with me because I had him standing with me for a long period of time and he got bored. I did the same thing with him and he never tried biting me again.
like a lot of the commenters I see on this one I have to agree with the show who is boss gently.
also an extra bit of love thrown in at those difficult times seems to help.
My Sugar-Sugar a three year old pasture rank, yelled at and threatened mare, has come a long way in the last few months, I now have no difficulty blanketing her, saddling her or grooming her, and holding that lead was a real chore, in the past but is easy now, due to cancer and heart trouble from the treatment, the kids want to have her gentled to greenbroke, and let me have her back from there, so we’ll see how that goes,Stopping the biting has been a matter of me letting her know I CAN turn her head, and WILL hold her firmly when needed, AM Going to brush her with baby oil for the flies and bots, and we’ll get all “kissy face” after she submits to the bent of my will, I don’t believe in my last years I can ever raise hand to an animal, and so her only ever “punishment” was a surprised slap to the jaw. she seems passed the biting now, and a great many of your tips have been of no small help, as I have been horseless since 1968 or so, and while it may be like falling off a bicycle, in that you never forget how, I’d just as soon ride and not fall
I had a half arab who constantly nipped all the time while being led due to previous owner constantly feeding mints id read about biting on the nose back a bit hairy in the mouth but it worked also I never feed titbits its asking for trouble
Hi all any advice on how to stop my horse head butting me
thanks Jane
The lead hore never gets bit or kicked. The other horses respect its space. Your horse just sees you as another horse and you need to be the leader. When ever you get challenged as a leader you need to read this before it happens as horses test and become more confident in their aggression towards dominance if not challenged and set straight as to who is boss. Respect the horse and tighten sinch progressively 3 times your needs. Before you do anything halter and lunge your horse to establish leadership. Change direction several times getting two eyes as you do so for both sides of the horse. You will notice a slight change to a more soft fell everytime you change direction two eyes. You are being the leader and the horse is accepting this. The most obvious cue from your horse that they accept your leadership is licking and chewing and lowering of the head. High head reactive horse, low head soft thinking horse.
I have a very dominate gelding who is very mouthy. You bend over and he will nip your butte. I agree that being the dominate human is the best bet. You need to be one step ahead of your horse. When I groom, I make my horse keep his head forward. If he turns, I push his head forward and tell him so. If he persists, I get out the grazing mask. My girlfriend showed me this trick. He nits and he gets the grazing mask put on him. He knows to stop his playing the game when he sees it. So most of the time I just show it to him now. It is not cruel and he learns not to play games because he knows you mean business without hurting him. When I am consistent with the process of keeping his head forward or using the grazing mask, he stops and his behavior does not escalate.
God bless you for saving them……
My Trainer told me to Pinch their lip as soon as they try to or start to bite….No slapping/hitting. It worked.. My Billy Bar now licks my hand! I love that Guy…..
You’re never to old to live a dream! But you do need to “show you’re boss”, but this doesn’t have to be mean. If you’re able, hiring a natural horsemanship trainer sounds like it would suit you (there are great books and online resources if you google it, too). Even horses that are worked with regularly need to go back to basics. And all that happened was that your mares treated you like a mare! The head boss lady in a heard needs to re-establish her role from time to time, so basic round pen work is our human equivalent. At first no line, just a lead rope of lunge whip (not to hit, just to drive her hind quarters), reward with rest. I reserve hitting only if they invade my space and don’t respond to body language/vocal commands to back off. But one tap (and usually not even hard, just to let them know I take enforcing boundaries seriously) and that sends the message clearly. This is important to address. Love IS powerful, but the lead mare (you :)) must first establish your role as the respected heard leader. Also, watching the Dog Whisperer can be helpful. He learned from horses growing up! His philosophy on establishing calm assertive dominance and giving affection only when the animal is in a calm submissive state will get you verrry far with your horse relationships. Best to you!
CJ
Being old has nothing to do with the handling of a horse. The secret is to talk to the horse in horse language. Monty Roberts is a great teacher and I have followed everything I have watched and read from him. I am nearly 70yrs.
I have taken on two really cruelly treated horses. I learnt that when the latest one, Buddy, went to nip me I should growl loudly and flap my arms. Sounds mad but works like magic. The arm flapping startles them and the growl is the nearest to the noise another horse would make. It worked the first time I used it and now Buddy never makes any attempt to mouth, nip or bite me. Every bit of his training is done the Monty way and he has turned out to be a very loving and gentle horse, intelligent, willing to learn etc. I do not use my voice commands I use horse language. As Monty says, it is not what we want, it is what the horse wants and the horse wants to talk to you in horse language.
I have found a magical answer to the biting or nipping problem. Before I divulge this secret however, I must wonder why this horse is biting. Over the past 50 years with horses I have seen people run for their lives due to the damaging affects of the ‘Wiley Carrot’. (carrots belong in a bucket.)
Horsemanship is the balance of Friendship & Leadership, If you are feeding carrots for friendship your going to get your relationship out of balance unless you apply some energy to leadership. I have a saying about presence, be “bold enough to punish, smart enough not to. In this case it means bold enough to bash your horse in the head for biting and smart enough not to. Now her is the smart answer… holding the halter in the right hand, place the fingers of your left hand under the jaw below the bars & put your thumb in the mouth over the bars and under the tongue and waller it around. Then loosen your hold and step back as the horse licks and chews his head will drop in a submissive apology. Then it is your job to accept this apology with a good head rub to renew the friendship. I do this often as I travel meeting problem horses. It turns a negative into a positive almost instantly. It’s even better than pulling a rabbit out of a hat.
born that way. I have had two stallions out of the same mare and sire. Also had a filly out of the same sire different mare. The filly and the colt were born a couple of months apart. But both were mouthy and the filly was mean, also both were kicky. Sadly the stallion (my first horse) herniated when I had him gelded at 2yrs and the mare died a few month later of colic at 2yr after I gave her away, she just didn’t like me OR the breeder, but she liked men – so I gave her to a nice guy, but there were no horses and she had been with my first horse from the day she was born – so I think the shock got to her. The first horse was actually nice but kicky and mouthy – but not with me. Now I got another stallion, little brother of my first stallion (he cannot be gelded due to heredity which I and the breeder found out twice, once with an older brother and then mine. So this
new guy can’t be gelded, vet recommendation also. But this new horse – I have had him since he was 4mos. he detached from his mom at 4mos and you would have thought they didn’t know each other. I think the mare knew her other two had died.
Anyway the new horse is wonderful, never bites or kicks and is very loving. Been training him since the day he was born and now he is 3yrs. fully trained, fully broke and lays down on command. A Great horse! But I am not fooled I know he is a stallion and don’t expect him to be different than any other stallion. But he has great manners. I always thought that bad handling made horses disrepectful, but now I see they can be born that way too.
Ground work, ground work and more groundwork!!!!! That’s where it starts! Spend some time with your horses….don’t just saddle them up and expect a laid back horse…..geeze you people just dont get it……don’t you all ever read about natural horsemanship? It takes time and patience and consistancy….I am no expert, but I do read and watch training videos…..so please ladies….spend some time doing GROUND WORK in a round pen……PS…..It’s fun!!!!!
Hey Bev,
You are going to get hurt. You need to tie up you horse when grooming and give treats when you are finished with a successful lesson. If you horse(s) bite you…smack them. I’m sorry…I know few of you here will agree with me, but if you don’t stop this behavior you will get hurt and your horses will not respect you.
You can try all kinds of tricks and horse psychology if you want, but a quick smak will get her attention, keep you from getting hurt and earn some respect for you. you have been through enough, Establish some dominance and enjoy your horses. they will be fine.
To avoid horse getting the upper hand please groom on your territory the barn and crosstie her. Assistant stands at her head holding onto her crosstied halter and monitoring with voice and strokes. A firm hand when necessary.
My 4yr old Mare is walking on the back of her hoofs could this be due to her shoes are to small for her they were changed about 1yr ago???Please help
Elena
Hi William,
Got a little concerned when I ready that you had a mare whose shoes had been done a year ago.
That could present serious problems. Normally shoes need to be changed and hoofs trimmed every 6-8 weeks.
At 4 she may be needing a trim more often.
Please get a farrier out as soon as possible, you could be facing some serious vet bills if her hoofs have been badly damaged by leaving shoes on that long.
She is leaning back because she is in pain.
Good luck I hope she gets relief soon.
Elena
Hi William,
Got a little concerned when I ready that you had a mare whose shoes had been done a year ago.
That could present serious problems. Normally shoes need to be changed and hoofs trimmed every 6-8 weeks.
Please get a farrier out as soon as possible, you could be facing some serious vet bills if her hoofs have been badly damaged by leaving shoes on that long.
She is leaning back because she is in pain.
Good luck I hope she gets relief soon.
Bev, I too am 63. I just purchased a horse myself. I only had one of our horses nip and the vet said to give her a flick with your finger on the lower soft part of her nose. Keep giving her treats like apples and carrots. It’s good for their teeth! But ALWAYS check the cinched girth by running the tips of your fingers underneath the edge of it. If you can get your fingers between her skin and the girth then it is not too tight. You are right abused or neglected horses need tender loving care, and time. If someone else cinches your horse, just for tightness. If you can’t get the fingers between her and her girth it is too tight, and it does pinch her; neither one of you will enjoy your ride. So listen to what your heart tells you. I either talk or sing to my horse a lot. We are doing fairly well together right now. Pray this simple prayer:”Lord, as I get ready to take a ride, protect not only my horse but the rider too.”
Bev, I almost forgot something else. Make sure your saddle in in the right location so it doesn’t punch her back. Please, make sure the edges of the saddle are not turned under but straightened out. The saddle does not go close to the neck but in the middle of her back. Just talk softly to her. Don’t rush her on running until you see how her trot & galloping gait flows. Use a soft touch to her neck. I lean over when I’m in the saddle and pat my horse’s neck and tell her, “That is a good baby girl.” She is 19 yrs. old. But new to me too. We are learning each other. When I groom her, as I brush her down her back and from the side slowly & gently grab her tail to brush it, I whisper, “Baby girl, it’s just me.” She sees it’s me, and continues eating her grain or some grass. I’ve been around horses most of my life 🙂 Have a blessed night.
I am finding this very interesting. I have recently bought a French Warmblood mare after being away from horses for 35years. I have found it rejuvenating and rewarding. I have never owned a mare before and wasn’t looking for one due to their temperament. This one is very respectful and very well trained but still a bit iffy at times. I have had her for nearly 3 months and am amused at the fact that she licks….. when I am doing her front feet she licks my back and my licks my arms and hands when she can. I have given her salt blocks and she still licks! I am convinced she loves me xx
OK you have a lot of help here with many good points.
My points will be short & to the point.
1. It takes a horse 6 – 8 months to adjust to a new place & feel at home there. (you’ve only had yours 3 & 1 month from what I read)
2. You’ve chosen to rescue two mares. Mares are the leaders of the herd. Establishing hierarchy is important. You will have to get these mares to accept you as top mare. That demands you “earn” that place with them.
3. She could have a pain you hit. You may want to consider having the vet out if you see any indication of pain.
4. Pick up a book on Horse Psychology, with mares that should help you a lot. Also a book on Natural Horsemanship. A lot with horses is about you “listening” to your horses body language.
5. You’re the Lead Mare. You have to be with mares. It may well mean you have to bite back.
Personally I stick to geldings & stallions. I’ve had mares, but geldings & stallions are so much more honest in their temperament.
Good luck with the girls.
I have read all of the comments Start out with a well trained Natural Horsemanship trainer and take lessons at least once a week.All of your current issues and ones to come will be addressed and you will form a strong bond allowing you to solve these issues in most cases. The bumping into your elbow is great …this creates your own space and you are so sorry he keeps bumping into it ! You are on the right track. You have received a number of ideas.
I’m happy with the synopsis of my comments
Hi William,
Got a little concerned when I ready that you had a mare whose shoes had been done a year ago.
That could present serious problems. Normally shoes need to be changed and hoofs trimmed every 6-8 weeks.
At 4 she may be needing a trim more often.
Please get a farrier out as soon as possible, you could be facing some serious vet bills if her hoofs have been badly damaged by leaving shoes on that long.
She is leaning back because she is in pain.
Good luck I hope she gets relief soon.
So many good answers and observations and I have not read them all but just one thing I want to add. I think it is a very bad idea to be in the presence of free ranging horses with high value treats like carrots on your person. Even my friendly, calm, extremely well behaved horses get food aggressive and will offer to kick or bite (one another but I’m in the middle) when they know I have treats on me so I never do it. I groom them in a pasture sometimes but I don’t even touch a carrot before doing that because they can smell it on your hands for quite a while. You could take treats in with a lone horse but even then, if it’s a known biter, horsie might bite when the treats run run out. If there are two or more, don’t have them on you and don’t think you are going to parcel them out fairly. When they are cross-tied or in a stall, that’s the time. And biters should probably get their treats from a bucket or the manger, not from your hands.
I am 64, had a long spell of physical disability, and am still doing fine with horses so don’t lose hope. These weren’t the best horses for you to take on but they have no where to go now due to the previous neglect and behavior issues so you are their everything. Time and love will work wonders but you must give extra, extra consideration to safety issues. A book you might find valuable is called “The Body Language of Horses” by Bonnie I forget-her-last-name. I teach newbies about horses on a regular basis and I quite insist that they read it.
Hoping someone can help with my biting problem. I have a 3 month old QH foal who bites every time I touch her. I have been touching her everyday for about 2 weeks ( didn’t have a yard before this and mother wouldn’t let me near her) but apparently she doesn’t like being touched. she is totally fine if I use a pole as I can rub it all over her and it doesn’t bother her. Today she lashed out with both back legs, missed me but got her mother who just kept on eating! The vet put headstall on and wormed her for me when I took mare in to get eye checked a month ago. Headstall needs to be loosened soon but I can’t get anywhere near her head. Any suggestions?