Today’s missive is on bucking horse problems. I know it’s a subject we can all relate too…
“My horse bucks when I least expect it. She can be working well, and then, out of the blue, whammo! My usual reaction is to work her hard from the ground and wait until she softens and willingly submits, then I get back on board and have another go.
However, my gut feeling is that she is resentful of work and sees it as an easy out, but it never ends up easy for her, as she gets worked even harder when she turns into the bucking horse… She has tried other methods of avoiding work like, dropping to the ground when being saddled, rearing and reversing when under saddle etc. Some advice from other people who have had this problem would be appreciated.
By the way, she is an alpha mare, so I need to be dominant at all times with her. My methods are kind and I follow the training of natural horsemanship, but I just don’t seem to be able to get this resentment out of her. I use pressure and release and reward at all times, Help !!
Judi”
Bucking horse problems
“When I got my paint colt at 2 I had had him a lilover 6 months when I went to feed him (had a older horse I was boarding) I put Franks food down first and was putting Peyotees down when he turned and bucked at me grazing my hand. I round housed himput him back in his pen and he had his moment where he ran thelength of pasture to barn for a few times then when I told him NEVER kick at me again and put his food down he never did anything ever again to this day!
He is being road and trail broke and the trainer just adores him and said He is the best horse he has had the pleasure of working with in years and the smartest also!!! But that round house bout killed me for having done it cuz I am not aggressive to ANY animal!
jayne”
Bucking Horse problems
“The horse I learned on 30 years ago bit, kicked and was a terrible bucking horse. He never succeeded in getting me on any count, though he did take off with me in the snow and try to throw me into a freezing filthy duck pond one February.
I think I was lucky in that I had a stronger will to stay on than he had to get me off! I always carried a crop. I never had any intention of using it!
He just had to be able to see it was there when he turned round and I could see he was assessing whether he might risk taking a chunk out of my leg! He taught me very well!
I think he was basically a joker testing me to see how dominant he could be. He did get a lot of people off! You need to learn to be the leader as even the nicest horse can be dangerous if you are not, but being the leader never means using any kind of weapon.
Pauline”
Bucking horse problems
“Thank you. I have a7 year old Paint/Quarter cross. I got her a 5 months. She can be quite ornery. I have personally tried to ride her 4 times. She’s had 5 months professional training. She stands, saddles and bridles great. Bitless since she had a mouth injury years ago.
However, when I get my foot in the stirrup and she feels the weight, she becomes a bucking horse and rearing. I only weigh 120 and the chiropractor has adjusted her. If I can get one her, she listens to no one. She has a mind of her own. Ive been told she just needs more ground work. Could it be more than that? I love her so Michael want to ride her without problems. Any suggestions?
Lauren”
Please do share your thoughts and comments below on any bucking horse problems. It doesn’t matter how long you’ve been around horses – we’re all still learning.
This post reminded me of this bucking one too.
As you can see from all the comments below, you lovely lot have a lot to say on this one.
Please do keep ’em coming.
Best
May I ask, please, what is “round housed”?
It is a type of kick where you turn to the side and kick out with your foot and leg…
reared back and came around and closed fisted him! I still hate myself for doing that!!! 🙁
I broke my back in 2011 and I have to be extra careful around horses. I have a loving young gelding that has never been ridden. I attempted to ride him but he was very nervous and this created an unsafe environment for my horse and me. I did some research and found Caroline Riders (Riderhorsemanship) videos on youtube, I have to say things are looking up! I’m working with my horse in a safe and natural stress free way now, he is not bucking or acting out.. Try it!
Hi Judi
In my humble opinion the reactions you describe are indications that your horse has a sore back. Unless your horse is particularly calculating, she is definately trying to tell you something. If she eventually works from the ground it says that the added pressure of a rider is hurting her. Hope you have already had her for a full workup at your vet already, so you can tell me I’m on the wrong track (I would be happy to hear this) I recommend getting a vet to look at her right away before you get seriously hurt.
Hope you see an improvement soon.
Very best regards
Kim
I’ve had a chiro work on her two times and has shown me what to look for if she puts her back out again. Thanks for the tip anyway.
Judi are you 100% certain there is no physical reason your mare is bucking. Have you checked her saddle, falling to the ground is not normally from unwillingness. Has a vet and chiropractor checked her out? Is she in season at the time. Hormones can make mares very uncomfortable.Does she buck when you do ground work or only when ridden. Who started her when she was first backed, often a bad experience, or ignorant starting can set them up for life!
Have had her back checked. Not sure when she is in season as she shows no obvious symptoms.
She will buck and pigroot when lungeing at liberty. I have done all the work with her, she was an unbroken eight year old when I got her. I did nearly a year of ground work before starting under saddle.
Maybe some of these horses have painful backs from ill-fitting saddles. It might help to check saddle fit, and get a saddle that fits the horse better, or try a treeless saddle. A lot of “bad behavior” under saddle is due to the fact that the horse is in pain when you ride. All the chiropractic in the world won’t help if you keep putting that painful saddle back on the horse…
I’ve tried a couple of different saddles. Currently using a roping saddle with FQH Bars and a very thick saddle pad.
It is good to know I am not alone. I got a American Mustang who is willing enough to learn but has a lot of fear issues and reacts strongly when he is unsure by jumping and running. He has caught me twice with this. The first time I was able to regain my seat and one rein stop him but Saturday he did it again and I could not regain my seat before hitting the side of the arena so I had to let go and sprained my back. I have a professional trainer and we are working 😕 him together but I am not sure if he will ever be ready for a trail ride.
I dont know what to do but keep exposing him to new things and pressure and release.
Sorry to hear that. I had a spectacular unplanned dismount off my mare some time back. She reared and then fell down on her side with me still on board and I was rammed between the panel of the round yard (which collapsed and bent under the weight) and her on top of me. I’m not sure that my girl will ever be ready for the trail either as she panicks in any new environment or situation.
Judi, your mare is trying to tell you that she is in pain: either from the saddle or the girth – or both.
Collapsing to the ground when being girthed is a classic sign of problems in that area. There’s a nerve in the girth region that, if pressed upon too hard, can cause the horse to faint.
In short, your mare is resentful because she is suffering pain.
Since the incident, I am careful to not over tighten the girth until she was properly let down and just before I mount her. Have tried different saddles and now using a roping saddle with FQH bars and a thick pad. Girth is a soft flexible wintec and am still mindful of not making it too tight, just enough to stop any sideways slip. If she is in pain, I’m not sure where, as she has had her back done twice and teeth are done regularly. Have also had a massage therapist check her over and could not find any hot spots on her.
😛 Just never too old to learn – thanks for all the tips!
I agree.
Judi, without seeing you and your horse in action on video it’s difficult to assess your situation. I knew a thoroughbred mare years ago who did the same thing and her rider just rode it out and then continued on calmly with work. I moved on from that barn so I don’t know how things eventually worked out. The problem with getting off is that you are confirming to your horse that a rider gets off if a horse bucks. Working her hard from the ground isn’t going to be connected by her to bucking only your getting off is connected to her bucking.
It’s important that you determine if there is a physical reason for your mare’s bucking, if not she needs someone to stay on her back through the bucking. Even if she stops bucking with someone who can ride her bucks she may try again with someone else like you.
Knowing whether your mare is coming into season or in season is important. The mare I mentioned at the beginning was absolutely crazy when in season. If you thought hormones could be an issue you could try putting her on Regumate and see if it helps.
Unfortunately every horse is not for every rider and your mare may not be the ideal horse for you. Don’t get hurt, that won’t do you or your mare any good.
Thanks Ray for this advice. I see what you mean about getting off and doing ground work after an incident. If I have fallen off, then I immediately get back on and try to continue with the lesson. She has never bucked a second time if this has happened, but feel tense under saddle as if she wants to buck again. Not sure if there is a physical reason, have had her back done a couple of times. Teeth are done regularly. Using a roper with FQH bars, previously used a pleasure with semi QH bars, and have used english as well. The bridle fits well and have tried using different bits and now using one that seems to keep her mouth relaxed. I have a friend who has ridden her for me when I have been injured, but as I am the primary rider, it has to be me that works through any problems with her. I will try the Regumate, not sure when she is cycling as she shows no obvious symptoms. As I think about it, hormones could be the problem here. If it was a physical pain in her body, or the saddle wasn’t fitting correctly, then she would exhibit this bad behaviour every single time that I worked her. But that is not the case. Her behaviour is irregular and often unexpected. I have done all the work with her myself, got her as an unbroken 8 year old and spent nearly a year just on ground work, manners and obedience at liberty. At the moment, I am focusing on doing different things each time so that she does not get bored and to keep her interest, always with the view of making every thing a lesson of some kind. I’ll try the Regumate and try to avoid getting hurt. I’m in my fifties, so I don’t bounce like I used to.
Lauren, it isn’t clear to me how long you have had your horse. If she’s seven years old and you’ve only tried to get on her four times, it sounds like you recently acquired her. If you have experience starting and training horses under saddle you could do what I would do and that is start the horse over from the beginning. This takes time but I learn where the horse has weak links in their training and am able to fix them. Reschooling a horse is generally more difficult than starting an untried horse.
If you don’t have experience in training horses, it isn’t in your horse’s or your best interest for your first attempt to be a horse who all ready has issues.
Figure it out quick Judi: your poor mare is in pain!
Pain would definately cause this behaviour. But her back has been done, teeth are done regularly, have tried different saddles and bits, and feel what I am using now is the best. Her behaviour is irratic. She can work well for weeks and then something will come from her when least expected. I’m inclined to think that it may be hormones, and will pursue that further.
It sounds like your horse has a sore back. I would definitely have someone check her out.
Yeah, have done that, and all is good in that area.
Your horse could be hurting, by way of cramping, soar kidneys, or out of alignment perhaps. But unless she has a lick of mean in her there is something going on or she’s got your number.
Best if luck with that and be careful. Walkin home beats a ride to the ER, if you are out riding.
Could well be a lick of mean in her, but it only shows it’s ugly head when I least expect it. It’s the unpredictability that is driving me crazy. If I had consistent problems with her, then I would put her in foal and look for another mount.
Hi. I agree with Kim. I have a quarter horse and had a western saddle however my horse outgrew it and living in London found it very hard to get someone out to look at it. My horse was just over 6 years old at the time he is now 8. Anyway he would get a bit antsy when I came towards him with the saddle and would try to nip me when I put it on then he would stand quietly. I would get on and all would be fine he would walk off quite happy then about 15 minutes into the ride he would stop start to back up hump his back turn around and start walking back home no matter what I did I could not stop him. At first I thought he just didn’t want to go for a ride but when I got off and started to walk him away from the yard he was quite happy and would walk for ages so long as I didn’t sit in that saddle. I think that if I had not taken notice of him he would eventually started to buck because how else could he tell me he was in pain. When physio looked his back was in an awful state and I had to turn him away for about 6 months with treatment. I then bought a western treeless saddle which he loves and no back issues and not napping. These are intelligent animals and they do everything then can to tell us what is wrong we just need to listen to them.
I see your point entirely. I feel that her back is ok, saddle is ok, I’m inclined to think now that the cause is hormonal, due to the behaviour being inconsistent. She is extremely good at communicating , and I’m not hearing from her that this is pain based.
Hi
From my experience with x racehorse if they are girthy and or buck for no reason most had ulcers and or sore backs. It’s important for fix these problems rather
Than getting after the horse
Well, an ulcer is hard to detect. She has not been a galloper. However, I agree with your point.
That kind of behavior is just so dangerous.
I haven’t had any experiences like the ones you all are relating, but it would be enough for me to get the vet out to have them checked for hidden causes of pain.
I hope for the best for everyone.
Thank you.
Had a Paso Fino who did the same, bucking, spinning, rearing and eventually bolting…Bless her, it turned out she had problems with her liver! Trouble is afterwards she was expecting pain and so didn’t want to be ridden, if that makes sense. She is now a broodmare.
This may well be this mares’ destiny.
Sounds like a saddle fitting issue to me. Amazing how the horse will react if the saddle hurts.
I agree entirely, however,I’m sure it is not coming from an ill fitting saddle.
My young gelding (brumby) use to buck occasionally if he wasnt understanding what I was asking of him. As long as iam precise with my commands clear calm consistent and kind he is great. I also make the qrong chioce (on his behalf) hard via groundwork and the correct choice easy
I can see a lot of this advice applying to my mare. I have this conversation with her all the time.
Your bucking sinking horse is IN PAIN! 😥
I see your point, but I think I have eliminated these causes.
I got a young rescue horse and after months of great rides, he took off on me on a trail and almost got us both killed (I used the one reign stop). I found out: 1) he had vaccinosis, a sever reaction to vaccines which would have eventually killed him. Vaccinosis affected his hooves, which then caused back pain. 2) I was told he was 6 when I got him but it turned out he was only 4. He grew and his saddle no longer fit properly. This combination caused sever pain after a certain time of riding. It’s been a long road to recovery healing him of the pain and then the fear of pain but he now feels good and is again a good riding horse. Also, no more vaccines.
Sorry to hear that. Sometimes I think that long miles in the saddle may be the best thing for my horse.
Judi, “horses don’t buck for no reason”.Tthese behaviours are very indicative of pain. Especially if the horse “eventually submits”. That is often because her back has gone numb, or she is just holding in the anxiety. In the wild, horses have to “keep going”. They can not show that they may be weak, as that would indicate their being a possible dinner for a predator. Predators look for the weak and infirm.
Sadly, that is exactly what she is doing…she is doing her best to tell you that something hurts, even though she is happy to be with you and put up with what she can bear. Then it gets to the point when she cannot bear it any more and she explodes.
Please listen to her, and have her fully checked out physically, including a trained saddle fitter and a dentist, as well as a vet.
Good luck!
Very good points. However her inconsistent bad behaviour can be both at the start of the ride or some time into it.
It’s always difficult to tell without seeing a horse and rider together, but collapsing is quite an extreme behaviour.
Either a very naughty horse (and would exhibit other behavioural problems), or is sore and trying to communicate this to the owner, or diet related? I only mention it because I had a very polite horse that suddenly reared, refused to be mounted or led and was generally unco-operative. Turned out to be diet related – reduced the supplemental feed and behaviour returned to normal. Having just been clipped (cold and grumpy) didn’t help either!
Her diet is a combination of grassy/lucerne hay, cool and calm mix, garlic, psyhillium husk (sandy soil) and pasture grass. Absolutely no grain or additives which would only make her fizzy.
Hello . You seem to be doing every thing right it just some times seems to take a lot longer with some horse,s . I am sure all will work out and the bucking will stop. Sorry for not giveing good advice . Bye for now
No, thank you. I really do feel that I am doing all the right things. Perhaps you are right, with some horses it just takes longer. I have always used the approach of teaching horses in their own time, not mine.
My horse has been diagnosed with Lyme disease and has a very severe hypersensitivity and is itching constantly ….has anyone had any luck with something pertaining to the itching. This is going on into our third year.
Al: This post isn’t about bucking, but it is in response to Patricia’s post about her horse’s skin and Lyme Disease. Perhaps her post could be the start of a new/separate blog???
Patricia (and everyone else out there with so much horse knowledge!) I would be very interested in hearing more about your horse’s Lyme Disease Diagnosis. I didn’t realize that hypersensitivity and itching were symptoms of Lyme Disease.
One of my Canadian mares (23 yrs old) is constantly itching and I am trying to determine what the cause might be.(more on that later!)
A few years ago when I was boarding one of my horses, I was trying to help a horse who had the most severe itching & sores on her belly that I have ever seen (& the owner refused to take her to a vet…long story….). I did a lot of “trial & error” to see if I could get anything to work. Here are some of the things I tried: Gold Bond powder, Gold Bond cream, zinc (for baby’s bottoms), Antibiotic cream (ie polysporin), Calamine Lotion, Aveeno itch cream. All of the things I tried seemed to help to “some degree”, but the thing that seemed to work the best for this particular horse was an ointment I bought from an Amish friend. It is called BICKMORE GALL SALVE FOR HORSES. It’s a bluish-green ointment in a brown tin. (www.bickmore.com 1-800-356-8804 on tin). I was only putting in on her belly though- not all over her entire body, so I don’t know if this will be of help to you or not! However, I use it on my horses for any cuts, abrasions, sores etc they get and it is amazing!!! It speeds up healing- incredibly fast!- and stops the hair from coming in white.
For the Lyme Disease, do you have to give your horse antibiotics? If so, is it ongoing? Or, if not antibiotics, what kind of treatment was prescribed?
What is your horses’ coat like? Is there a lot of dander? Any waxiness? Hard to shed out?
Is your horse itching all over or only in certain places? What do you use for the itching right now? For ‘all-over grooming’ that seems to help my girls’ skin and coats I use a few different things and alternate them…
1)pure Coconut oil (that seems to help somewhat with the dryness/flaking/dander and general health and shine of their coats and manes
2) Cowboy Magic
3)MTG- yucky smelling for sure…. but I think the sulphur in it helps with the itching/flaking etc. I have noticed that when I use it regularly on my horses’ manes and tails,it seems to last longer than any kind of grooming spray (Mane and Tail, Cowboy Magic, ShowSheen etc.), and keeps them tangle-free, promotes noticeable growth, and their manes & tails seem to be stronger, healthier and shinier. (Just my opinion! I don’t sell any of the products I mention!)That may help your horse’s coat Patricia. You might have to do some Trial & Error!
If you use any kind of bug repellant on your horse do certain kinds irritate the skin and increase scratching? How often do you bath him/her and do you find that certain kinds of shampoos irritate the skin? If so, what do you use? I think I am going to try Aveeno Oatmeal soap this year and see if that helps my girl.
I am assuming your vet determined it was Lyme Disease with blood work? How/why did they test for that? Did you find a tic or were there other symptoms presenting? May I ask what general geographic region you live in? (In Ontario, we have been warned that Deer tics- the ones that carry Lyme Disease- are VERY bad this year, so I would be interested to hear if you live in this area).
The best way I can describe my horse’s coat is like the pile in a very expensive, plush, Persian carpet- very thick and tightly packed. Despite grooming her all winter, in the spring she has an unbelievable amount of hair. I started grooming her for about 1-2 hours DAILY the 1st of March and I am STILL doing so(end of May) and I’m still getting TONS of hair. I must have 3 or 4 garbage bags STUFFED full- just with her hair. My other Canadian sheds about 1/3 of a garbage bag in total. It is just like she really has 2 (or maybe 3 or 4!) FULL coats of hair on her and the poor thing really sweats in the summer. I don’t know if it is Cushing’s related, aging hormones or what, but I have never seen such a long, thick coat on a horse and it takes forever for her to shed out- despite the fact that I cut most of it off with scissors (which takes me weeks!)and I use clipper blades (just manually, haven’t got her to accept electric yet!) and have about 12 different grooming tools I use to ensure that I get right down to her skin. She always has an incredible amount of waxy dander (even after I bath her) and she is constantly scratching all of her body (belly, bum, neck, back) on anything she can, year round, so I have pretty much ruled out bug allergies or reaction to repellants. A rep from Masterfeeds told me that her grandfather and father had draft horses (this mare tends toward the draft lines of Canadians while my other doesn’t) and occasionally they would have a horse with what is called a “double-coat”.(Anybody else heard of it? I hadn’t). They would give the horse black oil sunflower seeds and it would help them shed out, so I just started giving her those. My girl’s coat is healthy and shiny and she has an incredibly long, thick, shiny, healthy mane and tail as well…(I can just barely get two hands around the top of her tail!). I’d like to determine the underlying cause of the slow shedding,dander and the itching though, so I can deal with it as effectively as possible. Sorry for such a long post! Forgive all the questions I have, but I am trying to gather as much information as I can, and this blog is a great place to do it! If anyone has any comments/suggestions, I’d appreciate hearing them! Thanks for sharing! Patti
All the problems you mentioned, are all due to pain and discomfort!!! in all my experiences
Looking at it from the outside, I would agree with you. However, I think that there may be more to it.
I had a mare with the same issues. Out of the blue, I had a rodeo on my hands and ended up with a broken neck, back, shoulder, ribs, and a crushed clavicle. 2 years and surgeries to recover. 9 years later, my hubby agreed to me getting another horse, but we will only have geldings that are very gentle. You still have to be on your toes though, as any horse can hurt you. They have good days and bad days just like anyone else. I’m just warning you, that a difficult horse, can end your life or cripple you.
I had ridden all my life and never dreamed this could happen to me. It can happen to anyone. Hubby had asked me to get rid of the mare before she hurt me or someone else, but I didn’t want yo give up on her. Sometimes, that is the answer.
OMG you poor thing. It has been a long time since I have had a mare, having had geldings for most of my adult life. Some people have warned me that chestnut mares are the worse, not sure if this is true, but she certainly lives up to the reputation from others. I must admit, sometimes I dream of having a lovely of gelding plodder and giving up on all this training and teaching horses stuff. But since I have started her I feel a determination to see it through. My husband however does not share the same enthusiasm.
Never had the pleasure of being on a bucking horse.My equine chiro said there can only be 3 areas of a horse that can be out i.e., jaw,poll or sacrum.Everything else – pain etc relates back to these 3 spots usually in a diagonal cross reference.Then your horse could be carrying a genuine injury which causes other pain areas leading to bucking.
Then if a horse has learnt that by bucking at a young age that the predator on its back goes away if I buck for long enough then he will have learnt that bucking is good for him.
I f you put slight pressure on each vertebrae and associated muscles as you go along the spine and pay attention to the horses ears and he may even try and drop away from the sore spot,turn to bite or even kick if the pain is bad enough.This may give you insight into his behaviour.
Do you make sure you have plenty of arch in your saddle cloth before you put the saddle on and even after the saddle is on so there is no pressure on the wither.Are the teeth done?
Good advice. Have had her back done twice. Teeth are up to date. Have had her spine checked for hot spots and continue to do this myself before every ride. I do use a western with a heavy saddle pad, and try very hard to ensure that the pad is pulled right up in the gullet to avoid any drag on her skin or mane.
Judi,
Do you happen to have other horses? I had the same problem with my mare, when I first got her.. She downright, disliked me.. As soon as she saw me walk up to her stall, she would pin her ears back, walk away from me, face her rear end at me, as if she was flipping me off.. So, I placed my mini horse, in the stall next to her… He is a little lover boy.. Loves all the attention he can get.. I would love on him, reward him, brush him… give him all the attention he could take.. She would just stand there and watch.. I would say, “see how good you can have it”? She eventually realized, I am not the enemy, got very jealous.. Wanted the same attention.. Now, she just adores me, and is such a good horse.. It took some time, but the end result is so worth it..Hang in there…
What a lovely story. My girl seems to love me and loves as much attention as she can get. Will bang the gate, whinny, nicker and toss her head to get my attention any time that she sees me. However, once on the same side of the fence as her I need to be ready to respond to any dominant behaviour from her which she takes in her stride and seems comfortable once her place in the herd pecking order is established.
Judi,
Also, ground work is the most important thing..You need to make sure she gains your respect. As soon as she gives into your requests? Make sure to say, “good girl”. Give her some love, and a treat. Worked wonders for my alpha mare..
Rosa
Thank you , I do all that. Have to or else it goes completely pear shaped at the get go.
I do read your notes, so please keep me on your list. Thanks.
I can only repeat what has been said by numerous horse trainers before”There are no bad horses, just the humans who are around them” Please get proper training….As much as you can!!! I enjoy these feedback emails.
Well, some horses can just be wired wrong, but I don’t think this is the case here.
My mare was acting up couldn’t figure it out, then kept watching her noticed she was favoring when you touched her sides had the vet out noticed it was worse when in season cone to find out they ultrasound an found she had overion cyst sorry about the spelling but they gave her a shot that broke up the cyst. She is fine now you just never know
Good advice.
I too have an alpha mare, rescue horse appr. 23 yrs old, 16.5 hnds, TB beautiful loved to buck & twist when free running. Its been difficult, turned out she had teeth issues and badly fitting saddle “my fault”.. Have corrected those & she is doing fantastic, riding bitless now, pls make sure your horse is not in pain… They only have limited ways to communicate w/us !!!!
Thank you one and all for the advice. There is a consistent theme here that it must be due to her back and/or saddle causing these issues. I am confident that these are not the causes for the reasons stated above. I will try the regumate to address her hormones, and continue with her education. Maybe she will just take longer, and if her system can be regulated, it may just do the trick. However, I am mindful though, that safety for the rider first and the horse second is paramount. Story to be continued.
Does anyone know if horses are susceptible to turrets syndrome?
Hate to play devil’s advocate, but sounds like she has investigated the “pain” issues to death. Is it not feasible that this girl could just have attitude? 😈
Sometimes,, getting in with the quick timing to a correction counts double over the technique generally.
A correction is as simple as a puppy training “no”, however, we never want to go to the extent where a new problem starts.
Sure there’s many things that can be done but to stay on top of your own horse, ..perhaps timing?